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Is Mormonism Christian? by Late Richard John Neuhaus
November 24, 2009

Posted on 11/24/2009 1:46:39 PM PST by Steelfish

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To: Utah Binger

A month ago ELSIE was there!

Not good enough fer ya? ;^)


1,081 posted on 11/29/2009 2:44:44 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Buck W.
We’re told what the dimensions of the circular basin were. We conclude that they cannot be correct without further interpretation, ergo scripture is not literally inerrant. You’ve been following this discussion, haven’t you?

I have and you haven't been reading your bible either. Why not go back and read the whole passage over again. Please tell me where SPECIFIC measurements were made and specific other design features.

Where does the passage specify it was a perfect circle?

If that is too difficult for you, please interpret the allegory and tell us what all these things symbolize.

Or perhaps you can explain how you can obtain an accurate, pinpoint measurement using the measurement of the time. For example, since this probably would pass over your head, if you have a ruler marked only in inches, how accurate can you 'measurement'. If your measuring implement is only marked in cubits, how accurate will your measurement be?

If your numeric system is only ordinal numbers and no decimal numbers, how do you post your numbers?

Why are you insisting on a false definition of pi? Pi is an infinite decimal. Unlike numbers such as 3, 9.876, and 4.5, which have finitely many nonzero numbers to the right of the decimal place, pi has infinitely many numbers to the right of the decimal point. Pi is irrational: it cannot be written as a fraction (the ratio of two integers). So why insist on a false value for pi?

Perhaps its time for you to answer all these questions you've avoided (hence the abundance of crickets throughout)

1,082 posted on 11/29/2009 2:45:52 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Utah Binger

Ah!

I can SEE the diameter does NOT equal the perimeter * PI!


1,083 posted on 11/29/2009 2:46:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: count-your-change

Of course and I understand. It would be interesting to really see him answer the question for once.


1,084 posted on 11/29/2009 2:49:52 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla
Meanwhile; back on topic:

Is Mormonism Christian?

1,085 posted on 11/29/2009 2:51:46 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom

Of course, FRiend. Never thought otherwise.


1,086 posted on 11/29/2009 2:57:04 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (We're right! We're free! And we'll fight! And you'll seeeeeeee!)
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To: Elsie
Not good enough fer ya? ;^)

Elsie vs. Monica? Now that's a difficult question to answer. Great lips though.


1,087 posted on 11/29/2009 2:58:02 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah, where the World comes to see America)
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To: MHGinTN

I do know that. I just enjoy asking the evos.

The point is not that Jesus was physically fathered by a descendant of Adam, but that he was born into a family headed by a direct descendant of Adam. If Genesis is allegory, then Luke is including a fictional character in a factual list.


1,088 posted on 11/29/2009 3:00:32 PM PST by Mr. Silverback (We're right! We're free! And we'll fight! And you'll seeeeeeee!)
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To: Diamond

I believe the garments the King wants us to wear are the fruits of the Holy Spirit. In Galatians 5:22–23 Saint Paul names them: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

These are the signs of someone who has given his life over to Christ. Many say they belong to Christ. Not as many live it out.

Salvation does belong to God and the Lamb: theirs is the power to decide who receives that salvation. Countless passages of scripture in the Bible New Testament make it clear that our actions are very important in that determination.


1,089 posted on 11/29/2009 3:01:07 PM PST by Melian ("Here's the moral of the story: Catholic witness has a cost." ~Archbishop Charles Chaput)
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To: Elsie

Elsie, really! It’s unseemly to pretend to be this dense. Please stop.

It says the circumference of a basin is three times the diameter. You can fill in the gaps.

You’re making my earlier point for me and demonstrating why my disclaimer was necessary.

Attention: Not all Christians are this stupid!


1,090 posted on 11/29/2009 3:01:32 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Godzilla

You should be a little less obvious about a strategy change this late in the game if you don’t want to look like a complete doofus. Even your new approach requires interpretation of scripture, ergo it is not literally inerrant.


1,091 posted on 11/29/2009 3:04:33 PM PST by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: Godzilla
Not going to happen. It's like that silly thing about “pi”, an argument it has brought up several times before and the old and treasured favorite, ‘Your faith is weak if you don't agree that ........’, or ‘Is so and so a Christian?’

Or something else equally inane.

1,092 posted on 11/29/2009 3:09:25 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Buck W.; Mr. Silverback
You should be a little less obvious about a strategy change this late in the game if you don’t want to look like a complete doofus. Even your new approach requires interpretation of scripture, ergo it is not literally inerrant.

LOL, lurkers can go back and find ALL the times I asked you to provide these 'proofs', but the crickets play on. All of these go to prove that the flawed interpretation is yours. You cannot defend where the measurements were taken, you cannot define the shape of the basin, you cannot show even the basic ability to open a concordance to look up the meaning of the hebrew underlying the english text. If the measurement locations are not related, the forced INTERPRETATION on your part is wrong.

Shucks bucky boy, you are incapable of even justifying your definition of pi=3.14, when the world knows otherwise. These are all valid issues that you need to address BEFORE one can even lend the slightest credence to you statement "the bible says pi=3", which you have yet to show any of us here where that is specifically state in the bible.

No, sadly, you are stuck trying to force (eisengensis) you preconceived notions that all of the bible is allegory by misINTERPRETING the passage to arrive at a faulty conclusion. You must be a product of the modern school system for such abysmal skills of logic.

Finally, if an allegory, please at least go back an use a dictionary to understand what it means. Allegorical meanings are other than the literal. Allegory teaches a lesson through symbolism. Allegory communicates its message by means of symbolic figures, actions or symbolic representation. So what is the symbolic meaning of the basin and its measurements Bucky boy? You insist that it is allegory, pray decode the symbolism for us all.

No bucky boy, properly interpreted scripture does not immediately render scripture errant as you would have some here to believe. It is no good to make dogmatic claims of fallacy without carefully examining what you claim to be false.

1,093 posted on 11/29/2009 3:21:58 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Utah Binger

I feel like an udder failure!


1,094 posted on 11/29/2009 3:22:53 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
ROFL. Yeah, they are called LURKERS. duh.

...OR...messages may be sent by mormons who are using Bucky for a front man and won't post directly anymore because they have had their "doctrine" disputed over and over again with facts from knowledgeable Freepers.

I imagine the "Atta Boy" encouragement is treasured by our judgmental friend as they watch him dig himself deeper and deeper into the morass in carrying their water.

1,095 posted on 11/29/2009 3:25:52 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (The House health care bill that is dropping contains the word “shall” 3,425 times...)
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To: Buck W.; Mr. Silverback; metmom; Elsie; ejonesie22; Tennessee Nana

OBTW bucky boy, still waiting to find out upon what you base you claim to be a Christian upon - you know, those multiple questions from yesterday that you kept trying to change the subject about. I believe Mr. Silverback has asked similar.

When you stand before God on that judgement day - what will you say to justify your entrance into heaven?


1,096 posted on 11/29/2009 3:27:23 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Elsie; Utah Binger
I feel like an udder failure!

What a moooooooooving confession elsie - it brought me to tears

1,097 posted on 11/29/2009 3:28:35 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: count-your-change; Godzilla
Not going to happen. It's like that silly thing about “pi”, an argument it has brought up several times before and the old and treasured favorite, ‘Your faith is weak if you don't agree that ........’, or ‘Is so and so a Christian?’ Or something else equally inane.

Someone who wants to find a problem with Scripture is going to find it no matter how ridiculous the argument. If they can't find something, they will make it up.

It always gets down to people believe because they want to believe. If they don't want to believe, there's nothing in this world that will convince them because they will find some excuse to reject Scripture and thereby God.

What's really amusing is the lengths people will go to to find some reason to do just that, be it the whole nonsense about the Bible teaching that pi = 3 or the accusation that creationists have to be flat-earthers because someone decided that the Bible teaches that the earth is flat.

OTOH, it does say a lot about the integrity of Scripture that they have to go to such lengths to discredit it.

1,098 posted on 11/29/2009 3:34:09 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: ejonesie22

LOL....

Made up friends now?

Interesting how they have abandoned him to deal with this all alone.

I wonder if even they find his position too embarrassing to support.


1,099 posted on 11/29/2009 3:36:11 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Godzilla; Elsie; colorcountry
These Orderville, Utah Kids are doing fine. Annie Spencer circa 1915.(Courtesy the Spencer family archives.)


1,100 posted on 11/29/2009 3:46:21 PM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah, where the World comes to see America)
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