[listenhillary]

Sound familiar?

[grobdriver]

We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

Even if it's of their own making?

[TigersEye]

Yes, it sounds familiar. Those are all collective rights not individual rights.

I oppose Health Care Reform (HCR) it because it is a direct assault in individual liberty. I think that is its purpose.

HCR is not just about rationing and wealth redistribution. It's about the end of all individual rights as the corrosive effects of the new collectivist basic human right to health care spreads throughout the system like a virus.

Congressman Weiner says that health care is not a commodity. If health care is not a commodity then doctors and nurses are not free and sovereign citizens. If health care is a right then health care workers are slaves who must serve that right for the sick and injured. If health care is a basic human right, as Weiner says, then no health care worker can refuse to provide it, for any reason, because that would violate the patient's rights.

That means that the health care providers have no individual rights. The collective right of the people to get health care would supersede the provider's individual right to set their fees, their hours or change their occupational status or even decide how to apply their skills and knowledge. A collective right, by practical definition, is a state right because it supersedes the individual rights of others.

It may not be stated in any of the bills that patient's rights to care supersede a provider's right to set fees and hours etc, but it doesn't need to. Rights are always adjudicated in the courts. The legislation simply establishes the foundation for the courts to rule in favor of the patient's collective right to care.

Weiner’s view is collectivist, fascist and totalitarian. His view is the underlying philosophy of the entire Health Care Reform legislation the House and Senate have put forth. Consider the setting up of community watch dogs to monitor various health parameters of citizens in the Senate version of the bill. Look at pages 382 - 393.

TITLE I—QUALITY, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS

Even the citizens themselves will be subject to state set regulations on their behavior in order to fulfill the human right of universal health care. How much clearer can it be that these bills abrogate the concept of individual rights?

[GeronL]

Those aren’t economic. Those aren’t “rights”. That is nothing more than a wish list.

[cvq3842]

In order to implement this “second bill of rights,” we’d have to junk much of the first one, as well as the Constitution.

Life, liberty, property? All subject to the whims of the state.

Guns? Forget it!

Religion? No, government replaces God.

No thanks!

[Aquabird]

Life, liberty, and property did not come about because men made laws. To the contrary, life, liberty, and property existed beforehand in nature which caused men to make laws to protect them.

[SunkenCiv]

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however -- as our industrial economy expanded -- these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness. We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.

Squeezing money out of those who work in order to support those who don't, and who use their spare time to produce further generations of the idle, undermine the pursuit of happiness. But it won't last much longer.