[David]

As for Goldwater, I can't see that he had a problem at all. Arizona Territory was under the US flag and US law pertained there at the time of his birth. An act of Congress had established Arizona Territory prior to that. In addition, Goldwater obtained a federal court ruling declaring that he was indeed a "natural born citizen" constitutionally qualified to be president. As for McCain, there has been disagreement as to whether he was born in the Canal Zone or in Colon, Panama. If it were the Canal Zone, there would be no problem. (The McCain birth certificate posted over the Internet - indicating he was born in Panama - has been shown be FReeper Polarik to be a fraud, likely posted by a Democrat lackey.)

Well I appreciate Polarik but in this case, he is probably not correct. That Birth Certificate is in general circulation in the political community and the McCain people say it is a true and correct certificate of the original record.

I don't want a lot of further argument on this point but if Obama did get kicked out before the end of his term, McCain's status might make a difference. There really isn't much room for legal doubt or argument that McCain doesn't pass either.

It wouldn't make any difference whether he was born in the Zone or not because the Zone was part of Panama and even if McCain had been born in the Zone, he was still subject to Panamanian sovereignty from birth and thus flunks the Natural Born test.

Further, McCain had another problem--it has been assumed by people who just pick the USCA off the shelf that McCain in fact also became a US citizen when he came down the shute--however people assume that because the legislative history is not fully set forth; turns out that the statute on which McCain relies for citizenship was enacted after his birth without a retroactive application clause.

And he was not born in the Canal Zone either.

As for Goldwater, there were apparently lots of people in Mexico who were already arguing that part of Arizona was really part of Mexico; that claim existing prior to statehood might theoretically have been a basis for claim of sovereignty which would have barred Goldwater. I think that would have been a stretch--I think Goldwater probably would have been held eligible if elected; but apparently there was an active argument by the Dems.

[Fred Nerks]

Well I appreciate Polarik but in this case, he is probably not correct. That Birth Certificate is in general circulation in the political community and the McCain people say it is a true and correct certificate of the original record.

Now there's a surprise. I hadn't heard that one. Polarik, can you enlighten us further?

[justiceseeker93]

Man, you are being tough on McCain with respect to this "natural born citizen" question, when you admit that there is no case law available for guidance.

To the best of my knowledge, the Canal Zone was under the United States flag. I can recall world maps with the notation "Canal Zone (U. S.)." Plus, the Canal Zone elected delegates to the parties' conventions.

Although the writers of the Constitution probably could not foresee situations where a person born abroad to two American citizen parents - one parent serving in the American military abroad at the time - would be the subject of this constitutional inquiry, I would rule in McCain's favor if I were a judge, based on my presumption that the founders would not have had any concerns about a person with this pedigree having any foreign loyalty. Nevertheless, I think that a constitutional amendment might be a good idea to clear up any doubt.