Posted on 06/27/2009 6:29:25 PM PDT by Chet 99
Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 @05:18pm CST
An Evansville mother is behind bars for putting her teenager in handcuffs to "teach her a lesson". Dawn Wininger is facing neglect charges. Police say officers were sent to east Missouri Street and found Winingers' 13 year old daughter in handcuffs. She told police her mom had handcuffed her four or five hours ago. Wininger says she put the handcuffs on her daughter but had intended to take them off after a only few minutes, but fell asleep. Child Protective Services took custody of the girl and a 5 year old child, who was also in the house at the time.
FRiend, rather than get into a p*ssing match with you about who's ignorant on this subject and who isn't, I'm going to instead ask you to grab a brain, and think for a moment about your post.
> I have personally transported prisoners long distances in cuffs and shackles for 24 hours at a time. They had neither permanent nerve damage nor did they have any bruises or other damage that you could see.
Have you not heard of handcuff neuropathy? You can bet your department's insurers have. And yet here's you, in a public forum, saying that it's OK to handcuff someone for 24 hours at a time and they don't get nerve damage?
Maybe you can do this safely: I'd be willing to guess that you've had some handcuffing training, you know exactly how tight (and no tighter) to fasten the shackles, and that you know all about the importance of double-locks.
But what about the average Joe who doesn't know about these things? Do you think it's perfectly OK for him to fasten someone in cuffs for 24 hours?
On that subject I'd be curious to know your department's guidelines on using restraints -- 24-36 hours seems like an excessive length of time for handcuffs.
Here's a US-sourced document on handcuff liability for Bail enforcement agents. It discusses some of these issues at length. I happen to agree with most of what is written therein: Handcuff liability for bail enforcement agents
Okay, maybe she should have gone for the baton instead.
> Handcuffs are considered a ‘restraint’.
> Not a weapon.
> Can still do damage, nonetheless.
I agree that handcuffs are restraints.
I’m interested in your viewpoint: why do you believe that handcuffs are not weapons? Particularly given that they “can still do damage, nonetheless”, as you’ve observed? In particular, their use can constitute Deadly Force.
How are they conceptually different to, say, a Taser — which I suspect you would agree is a weapon?
Tasers can temporarily incapacitate someone. So can handcuffs...
You don't know that. She could very well have just fallen asleep. The girl, however had to have been up to something for the incident to happen. That is what I want to know. Teenage girls can be a handful. The girl could have been on the phone all those hours complaining to her boyfriend for all anyone knows. We don't know if she couldn't go in and wake the mother. The girl could have up and decided to call the cops herself to get mom in trouble. There's a whole lot of the story missing. For all we know they could have been the daughter's own pink fuzzy handcuffs.
Yes, fourteen years ago this woman was a knockout. That picture shows what having a thirteen-year-old daughter will do to you.
Funny you should mention that.... After my youngest daughter turned 21, she asked me to handcraft some medieval style cuffs and a short length of chain. She also had me make her a mail doublet (I cheated and used steel wire for the rings). I never asked.... I really don't want to know... I just did the ironwork.
/johnny
Well of course I don’t know that. I wasn’t there. I was just speculating like you and everyone else. I’ve just never met a 13 year old girl,even the ‘handfuls’ (I used to be one) who would sit around for hours with her wrists bound with handcuffs. I don’t even doubt that the girl is probably beyond a handful. The mother said herself, according to the story, that she intended to take them off after a few minutes. So yeah, when I intend to do something in a few minutes I always lay down and go to sleep first. I would hope that handcuffing one’s daughter would be out of the ordinary enough to warrant some type of supervision for those “few minutes”.
They can be nasty buggers. Cuffs and leg irons in the hands of professionals are just tools. The same in the hands of mental midgets such as this old woman are unjustified. Just so my little Kiwi buddy doesnt think that I approve of this old waste of skin doing this to a child, I dont, but, cuffs in the professional world are just another tool of the trade. The big problem I see here is that different settings have different rules. Career criminals and bond jumpers are being given more rights than citizens. My take is, that if you dont want to get hurt, then stay out of trouble and show up for your courts, otherwise, you earn what you get.
Now that is funny. My wife said the same thing.
drunk..stoned..guilty
> Just so my little Kiwi buddy doesnt think that I approve of this old waste of skin doing this to a child, I dont,
OK fair enough. We see eye-to-eye on that, ay.
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