Posted on 05/16/2009 4:22:51 PM PDT by JoeProBono
For centuries, humans have imagined they are the only animals with morals. But humans are not alone in the moral arena, a new breed of behavior experts says. Natural historian Jake Page said some scientists are acknowledging what pet owners have told their canines all along: "Good dog."
Dogs are full of natural goodness and have rich emotional lives, said animal behaviorist Marc Bekoff, professor emeritus at the University of Colorado, Boulder.
A dog's code of ethics is on display daily in parks, backyards and family rooms. "We're not trying to elevate animals," Bekoff said. "We're not trying to reduce humans. We're not saying we're better or worse or the same. We're saying we're not alone in having a nuanced moral system." Page, author of "Do Dogs Smile?," said biology no longer dismisses dogs and other animals as "furry automatons" driven by instinct and food. "People like Bekoff have figured out how to measure these things," Page said. "It's a whole new ballgame for studying dog personalities and emotions." Bekoff, co-author of "Wild Justice: The Moral Lives of Animals," spent thousands of hours observing coyotes, wolves and dogs. He analyzed videotapes frame by frame. The work convinced him these animals possess empathy and compassion, the emotions upon which moral sense is built. While much the same can be said of monkeys, wolves, elephants, dolphins, whales and other social animals, dogs are special cases; they share in human lives, he said. "Dogs know they are dependent. They learn to read us," Bekoff said.
"Dogs develop this great sense of trust. We're tightly linked, and there is something spiritual about that unity."
(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
“An animal cannot sin against God, having not eaten from the tree of knowledge, “
So I guess animals don’t have a soul. Were animals made in God’s image?
“Before man and his fall, God saw everything as good........”
So mountains have souls? Cause God created everything and said everything was good. Being good doesn’t get you into heaven.
It is worth noting that you agree that nowhere in Scripture does it state that animals or rocks have souls and will be resurrected on the last day. You try to appeal to an argument of silence which is the weakest argument of all. It would be like me saying that Jesus had six toes since the Scriptures do not say he had five toes.
If there are not specific and clear verses stating that animals and plants have souls (by the way, this is what the article is about), then all that is left are mere opinions, speculations, and imaginations. I do not know of anyone at any time in the history of the Church that has ever interpreted the verses that you cite as denoting that animals and inanimate objects have souls or will be resurrected.
Only the pagans had such belief in animal spirits and afterlife, such as the cat mummies that you find in Egyptian museums. I can find nowhere in either the Hebrew writings or the new Testament (biblical and extra-biblical) that the church held such beliefs, in fact they ridiculed these pagan mythologies and the worship of cats and dogs.
“Everything has a soul.We have an everlasting soul.”
Rocks have souls?
Clinton has a soul?
I've never claimed that plants and inanimate objects have souls. I have stated that our physical senses do not perceive all there is to God's Creation, and that the wonder of that Creation is much more than our ability to ever comprehend in the flesh.
As far as interpretations, you might want to look at Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley and Matthew Henry, for starters.
You have your beliefs and I have mine...We will only know which one is right after we’re dead...But a word of caution, as Jesus said everyone that says Lord Lord will not enter the kingdom..Some who think they should be in the kingdom, will be left outside...Not my words but Jesus word..Others will be surprised and told to enter...I haven’t got the slightest idea where I will be. Glad your so sure....
“.I havent got the slightest idea where I will be. Glad your so sure....”
I’m only sure because I’ve read the book and have done what it told me to do. Confess you’re a sinner, believe Jesus is the son of God and that he died for your sins, and accept Jesus as your savior.
Its right there in the book.
This discussion was about whether dogs had souls and not whether creation itself worships its Creator in some mysterious way. At least for me, they are two different topics.
OK
Dogs do have souls. They have a place alongside us in heaven as part of our household, though, regardless of how fine a point you put upon the intended meaning of nephesh, nephesh chayyah, and ruach. But, that is a debate for another day.
There is an old saying that he who asserts must prove. I do not know of anything in Scripture that supports the view that animals have souls, in this case “dogs.” The idea for a Hebrew that dogs had souls would be horrific to say the least.
Posting. On. A. storm .every living thing has a soul.
Ps. Know your teasing.
People can be as pro-life as they come [ME for example] and still bristle at someone categorically stating something so cavalierly that simply CANNOT be known, and with which they vehemently disagree. Stating your belief simply as your opinion, which is all that it is, would not have ruffled nearly as many feathers. But i think you knew that.
“every living thing has a soul.”
I disagree, people have souls. Animals and plants do not.
“As a pet lover, I can understand why some people believe that dogs and cats have souls. Sorry, friends, but they do not.”
And you know this how?
Anyone who has loved a dog and received their affection and trust in return knows intrinsically that there is something behind their eyes more than simple instinct.
That said, I'm surprised that you would not know that the Hebrews regarded all living creatures with the breath of life as possessing (being, really) a soul. Different levels, yes, but true nonetheless. So, your contention that the idea for a Hebrew, that dogs had souls would be horrific, is not correct.
Regarding Hebrew attitudes toward the "lesser" creatures, I'll point out that the righteous man regards the life of (is merciful to) his beast (Proverbs 12:10), and also the tale from II Samuel of King David being outraged at the taking and killing of a sheep being kept basically as a pet. Going into the fulfillment of Judaism represented by the Messiah, Jesus Christ, there is not one inkling of revulsion, in fact shepherds featured prominently, and He was born among farm animals, who were apparently quite reverential.
I've taken the liberty of going back through your posting history, and you're Lutheran, so of course you'd have more than a passing familiarity with the writings of Martin Luther. How do you rationalize Luther believing as he did, and your beliefs to the contrary, regarding the topic of this thread? Protestant thought, by and large and such as it is, does not reject this concept at all, as demonstrated by not just Luther, but Calvin, Wesley, Henry and others. They found the "proof" that you request in the very passages I've provided.
So, right back at you, he who asserts must prove. How can an animal be present on the new Earth, glorified, as all these prominent Protestants believed, without a soul?
LOL, I knew what you meant.
“I will, however, give my reasons again if that is helpful. I am willing to share my source of knowledge with you, and I would be interested to know on what basis you came to your views.”
And my views on the subject are just what, may I ask? I never stated them. I only asked you upon what you based your steadfast conclusion that dogs DO NOT have souls. You seemed pretty sure of yourself.
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