Posted on 05/06/2009 7:57:34 PM PDT by Jotmo
I have an idea involving promoting open carry of firearms that I’d like to get some input from Freepers on. I’d like it to be thoroughly thought out, and the best group of thinkers I know is right here on FR.
I live in Wisconsin, and I’m sure everyone is up to date regarding the issue of open carry here that has been in the news recently. I’d like to do something that would promote the image of people who openly carry firearms, get the public in our local community used to seeing people carrying weapons, which I feel would go a long was towards removing the “shock” factor that many experience, do some good for the community, have some opportunities for socialization amongst the gun owner in our area and stick one to the liberal bed wetter’s in the process.
The idea is to form an organization that would perform community service, but doing so while legally and openly armed. Simple things like picking up trash along a busy road, cleaning up or making improvement to a park or other public area, anything that can be done with some labor and a little time on the weekends. You get the idea.
All applicable laws would be followed to the letter of course, but imaging that every month or so 20 to 40 people are seen by the public doing something good for the community all the while with a pistol strapped to their hip.
I feel this would help the public get used to seeing armed citizens around, and would help remove the automatic negative reaction many people have to seeing a gun on anyone not in a cop uniform. This would also be a great way for us to exercise our rights while in a group, not going it alone and risking arrest by some cop on a power trip.
So I need some input. Any comments are welcome. Let’s hash this out and see if it’s a workable idea.
Having said that, I want to conceal carry. I think the best thing would be to have both methods of carrying legal.
We had an “open carry lunch” about a year ago around here. We met on a weekend for lunch at a large restaraunt, and told the management and local PD what we were doing so we wouldn’t have to deal with some idiot nervous rookie cop bumbling in on us.
The whole thing was a blast.
One of the guys picked up the waitress for a shooting date.
I hear there is a lot of trash in Washington these days....lets try doing it there.............ooppssss
you cant carry a gun there without drawing a lot of attention.
Here’s an idea for you....
Just start open carrying a model replica... complete with the florescent orange tipped barrel which designates it as a non-operational weapon which is discretely holstered so that u cannot tell that it’s fake unless u take it out.
It has the same effect on would be muggers, puts your point across to the public, and is perfectly legal without any special permits.
Should be interesting to hear about responses from public, including those in law enforcement.
If a cop asks... just tell him... its a fake.
I have a Crosman Stinger P9 air soft pistol. It looks VERY realistic, even up close. I've considered caring that around to gage the reaction just as you described.
Cool... keep us updated please
Using cross-sectional time-series data for U.S. counties
from 1977 to 1992, we find that allowing citizens to carry
concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to
produce no increase in accidental deaths.
If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed
gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately
1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravated
assaults would have been avoided yearly.
- Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns
John R. Lott, Jr., School of Law Univ. of Chicago
As a long time CC person, in a state NH which does not deny Open Carry by law and a former cop my thoughts are this.
1. OC you lose the element of surprise.
2. OC are you ready to fight someone or a group for possession of your gun?
3. OC be-careful of your OC and CC laws. In NH to carry in a vehicle you need to have a CCW Lic., even if you are carrying in the open.
Know the laws of your state.
Get ready for the cop who does not know the laws.
Get ready for being arrested for Disturbing The Peace,or some other such law, because some commie feels threatened.
Our 2A group in Ga (Georgia Carry.Org) sponsors just such events, We even have a highway marker. But it is up to the individual to get out there and be a spokesman everyday for "Open Carry"... as did Mr. Gonzales, who by the way is a member of Georgia Carry.
1. OC you lose the element of surprise.
No, the bad guy loses the element of surprise (on you) and will move on to someone not openly carrying.
2. OC are you ready to fight someone or a group for possession of your gun?
This item and the one above it are common "straw man" arguments that cannot be backed up with any historical instances.
I've carried concealed for many years, but I started Open Carrying a couple of days a week after a few citizens in my state were hassled by LEOS for legally O.C. (both ended in Federal lawsuits against the Depts. and the offending LEO's.
But you are correct... be ready to be questioned and/or arrested by some rookie who doesn't know or disregards the law, that is one reason I always recommend newby Open Carry citizens to carry a copy of the applicable laws with them.
Open carry has many advantages, as does concealed carry. While concealed carry has the advantage of surprise, open carry has the advantage of tactical deterrence. You almost never have people try to take a firearm from a police officer who is open carrying *unless the officer is in the process of interacting with an offender*.
People are less likely to fight you if you have an openly displayed firearm.
Wisconsin has no legal concealed carry. The only way you can exercise your rights is to carry openly. Concealed carry laws were passed with 2/3 majority in the legislature twice, then vetoed by the rabidly anti-gun governor Doyle. Doyle then twisted arms to get a couple of Democrats to change their vote in order to uphold his veto.
Wisconsin has a number of contradictory laws that can be a problem. They are well discussed on :
The people there are organizing to address the issues that you bring up. There is strength in numbers. I have joined, and am donating time and money. We have to stand up for the Constitution and the country, and this is an area where we can have an effect now.
“If a cop asks... just tell him... its a fake.”
If he proceeds to arrest you, he has made a false arrest. Carry a digital recorder to record the interaction. It is very helpful if you have someone with you as a witness.
Only do this if you are willing to put up with the potential hassle, however, there is the potential that you could win a civil rights lawsuit as well.
Do this monthly in different cities or locations in Milwaukee. Do not expect an immediate change in attitude. Do not advise local police ahead as there is no obligation to do so unless it is for the trash cleanup effort.
While concealed carry has the advantage of surprise, open carry has the advantage of tactical deterrence.
Rosa Parks would have has less headaches if she stayed in the back, but she sacrificed, and made a point by sitting in the front.
Open carry activists are willing to sacrifice whatever real or imagined benefint of concealed carry to make their point.
I’d suspect that teh safest society is one in which both open and concealed carry are common, and the safest person might just be carrying open and concealed (like cops do).
Consider attire. Get your people to dress as they would for church, or like a businessman (avoid concealing suit jackets, though. No gun activism T-shirts. Khakis not blue jeans. Be sure to include women. And bring along kids to help with the work, though not carrying. Try for some ethnic diversity, too.
It’s all about IMAGE, so that should be your number one focus. Consider media coverage picking out the fattest, ugliest, scariest, or most embarrassing participant, and start by fixing that issue.
My $.02, for what it’s worth.
I’d like to see someone market a ‘Fake’ gun made of solid plastic with only the vague outline of a gun to help “train” the general public in open carry.
It would appear to be a gun in a holster from a long distance but would obvious not upon closer examination to alleviate hassles from the police.
The idea would that after a while people would just ignore this type of thing – open carry wouldn’t be as “Shocking” to people.
1. Contact the VCDL here in Virginia, they are a pro-gun group that might be able to help you out with some ideas.
2. Perhaps after whatever event you organize, have everyone meet up at a restaurant with their families (being sure to obey any open-carry laws regarding establishments that serve alcohol) and have an Open Carry lunch/dinner. It would be wise to contact the manager of the restaurant first, though.
3. Expect to have the cops called on you for the first few times. Print out copies of the law in your state regarding open carry and have them on hand for when the police show up. If you want to play it safe, contact local law enforcement just to let them know what is going on. I’m sure they would appreciate the heads up given that they WILL be called to respond.
Dave might have some ideas for you.
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