Too Fat for the Boy Scouts? New Weight Requirement Angers Some

abcnews ^ | May 6, 2009 | By SARAH NETTER

[majormaturity]

As an old scout, I have to agree with Viking2002. If it’s a weekend, drive-in campout, no problem. If you’re going to hike Philmont for 10 days, better bring an oxygen bottle and nitroglycerin or lose weight and get in shape. Anybody can keel over anywhere, anytime; but most of us know our limitations - if we don’t we will get to know them - and if every scout used common sense, guys in this condition would refrain from this sort of activity until they were physically ready for it. OOpps - forgot - that would be common sense, and common sense has been outlawed. Sorry.

[Plutarch]

From the form in question below. If a Scout or Scout leader is morbidly obese, it is a medical risk factor, and it is reality that there is a greater likelihood of that Scout having a problem, and not being able to keep up. Those objecting to this are objecting to a big fat reality.

___________________________________________________________

Part B is required with parts A and C for any event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours, a resident camp setting, or when the nature of the activity is strenuous and demanding, such as service projects, work weekends, or high-adventure treks. It is to be completed and signed by a certified and licensed health-care provider—physician (MD, DO), nurse practitioner, or physician’s assistant as appropriate for your state. The level of activity ranges from what is normally expended at home or at school to strenuous activity such as hiking and backpacking. Other examples include tour camping, jamborees, and Wood Badge training courses. It is important to note that the height/weight chart must be strictly adhered to if the event will take the unit beyond a radius wherein emergency evacuation is more than 30 minutes by ground transportation, such as backpacking trips, high-adventure activities, and conservation projects in remote areas.

Risk Factors

Based on the vast experience of the medical community, the BSA has identified that the following risk factors may define your participation in various outdoor adventures.

• Excessive body weight
• Heart disease
• Hypertension (high blood pressure)
• Diabetes
• Seizures
• Lack of appropriate immunizations
• Asthma
• Sleep disorders
• Allergies/anaphylaxis
• Muscular/skeletal injuries
• Psychiatric/psychological and emotional difficulties

For more information on medical risk factors, visit Scouting Safely on www.scouting.org.

[silverleaf]

“Women who are eight months pregnant can’t go on some Scouting activities, either”

well,that depends

I’ve known some women so-called GS leaders get highly emotional and indignant about the “rights” of 8 months pregnant Mommies to go along on troop camping trips

not with my troop, sorry

[surely_you_jest]

He ain’t heavy, he’s my brother.

You're dating yourself. But funny!

[SZonian]

You don’t know anything about what you’re attempting to talk about.

SZ

[Tax-chick]

Oh, I’ll bet they do. People insist on their “right” to do all sorts of insane things, and expect someone else to deal with the predictable consequences.

My pioneer ancestors went on high-adventure-trek camping trips and had babies, but as my mother (from the “just off the boat” side of the family) says, “If it were up to me, we’d all still live in New Jersey.”

[RonF]

I'd like to know how, exactly, a private organization proposes to prohibit a grown man from going to publicly accessible locations, particularly when his minor son is at those locations.

Actually, a private organization can prohibit a grown person from participating in any activity they run. Said grown person has every right to say "Then my kid's not going either," of course.

My experience with the kind of trips that they're talking about (and I've done a half-dozen of them with the Scouts) is that a man of his size wouldn't be ABLE to accompany his 14 year old kid on them. He just wouldn't be able to keep up. If the location is publicly accessible by car then these weight limits don't apply. If they're only accessible by a more than 30 minute hike from the nearest road, he might be able to make that first 30 minutes but he's fall behind soon thereafter.

If he wanted to go on a canoe trip into Canada in Ontario's Quetico Provincial Park with me, for example, there's be no way he'd fit into the canoe. If he tried he'd probably swamp it, if not immediately at the first bit of wind and chop. Further, at 370 pounds his weight plus that of the other person in the canoe would leave insufficient cargo allowance.

[ktscarlett66]

How much liability does the BSA assume for chaperones/leaders? Are they covered under an insurance policy? Would the organization cover medical, time lost from work, that sort of thing, if and when someone is injured on a trip or something? Say for instance, a leader breaks his leg while hiking. Do they take any responsibility or is there an understood ‘you’re liable for any injuries’?

I’m not asking to be smart, I don’t know. Only one of my sons was interested in scouting and he quickly lost interest as it seemed to be more about paperwork than the outdoor/active stuff he always wants to do. I do remember being in Girl Scouts, our leader was a *huge* lady, never had kids of her own but led the local GS troop for years and years. And she went with us on everything we did.

[BookmanTheJanitor]

Somebody count all the scouts. Looks like ol’ Larry ate one.

Ha Ha. When I was in high school, we played against a player that was 6'3" and 345 lbs. (as a sophomore!!!). He only came in for goal line defense and the offensive lineman next to me screamed "he's eating me" when the giant kid grabbed him.

Unfortunately, the following year the young man got up to 415 lbs. and was not allowed to play football by the team doctor and his own doctor. I heard he lost alot of weight. I hope he continued to do so and is still alive and healthy today.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I’m right on the edge for my height, a little over the top but working on it.

There has been some question as to whether this would apply to summer camp (note the 72 hours number, but summer camp itself isn’t strenuous).

I’m just using it as another of many good reasons to get in shape and lose some weight. Although my kid isn’t anywhere near meeting the limits either, unfortunately.

[ktscarlett66]

Geez, after reading all the posts, I could only wish that the local scouts did anything remotely like this. Maybe my son would have stuck with it!

[RipSawyer]

Even at 100# less he would be pretty chubby.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

AT 100 less he would still weigh 270 which is very obese for his height according to the charts. I am two inches taller and weigh around 263 right now without clothing weight and I am obese by the charts. I wear a size 52 extra long jacket and 38 waist pants and I am within ten pounds of having a washboard (six pack) midsection but I am obese they say.

The chart says I should weigh a maximum of 205, at that weight I would look like Ichabod Crane, a stick figure resembling a half starved inmate of a prison camp.

[AZ .44 MAG]

I agree with having physical requirements for physical activities..

But height vs. weight isn’t always an absolute indicator. I’m 5’ 10” and 225 lbs and wear 34” waist jeans. I don’t know my exact BMI but I remember it says I’m morbidly obese. If 6’ 2” needs to be 239 I’m pretty sure I’m over the limit. But I probably only carry about 10 pounds extra around my waist. Would I be allowed on trips because I don’t look fat and probably wouldn’t be asked my weight?

[silverleaf]

GS insurance picks up what your own insurance does not - I assume BS insurance is similar. Would have to read the policy

It does NOT cover anyone who is not registered with the organization

I never take unregisterd parents or siblings on my troop trips

Too bad about your son- there are many troops and each is different. But older boys, most exist to camp or do high adventure activities or to travel. There is also Sea Scouts or Venture Scouts (co-ed, age 14 and over)- you could check your local area- do a web search or call national. Watch the newspaper for reports about troop activties

[SZonian]

Easy, no BSA liability insurance. Every outing requires a tour permit, if it's filled out fraudulently, the insurance can be rescinded and private parties or the Chartered Organization then become liable. He can also choose to keep his son home and explain why as well.

Do you know what the BSA means when they say “High Adventure”? We're not talking “National Parks” in the sense of driving your car up to a picnic bench either and pitching a tent while the BBQ gets started.

Rock climbing, backpacking trips into the back country, white water rafting, etc. We're talking some strenuous stuff that's not for the faint of heart or those who are obese such as this man.

I hiked a 9400’ mountain with my son this past weekend. We passed a slightly heavyset (~ 230+ lbs.), out of shape man who was struggling mightily to get up the mountain. We found his buddies up on the summit. He made it, but his inability to keep up had put his group way behind schedule in regards to getting off the mountain before dark. They still weren't down when we left the parking lot hours later.

Now, you have a Troop of boys who have scheduled stops based on distance and ability and you have one who can't keep up, they are now in danger of missing their scheduled water, food or shelter destination. Do you sacrifice the group for one or just the one’s feelings?

SZ

[SZonian]

they rescue people from Mt Everest and other remotet areas

I'll bet none of those folks weighed 370 lbs.

SZ

[darkangel82]

I was a scout and there was never that much paperwork. Of course, that was a long time ago.

[chit*chat]

MY son gained allot of weight when he was 6 years old. His Dad left us and it was due to the upset I suppose. We watched his weight, agonized over it and hurt for him when he came home upset from name calling at school.

I PUT him in basketball - he was afraid to take the ball, but I was so grateful to the coach who put him in the game anyway, because he was at least running up and down the court. I might mention here that I was living in a high crime neighborhood next to my Grandparents who watched him while I worked, so playing outside was not an option due to safety concerns. He joined every seasonal sport for exercise and ate well balanced meals. I even had him join weight watchers! Do you have any idea how difficult & embarrassing that is for a teenager?

I THOUGHT he was overeating until I had a birthday party for him and observed what his school-mates were eating! His father was close enough to be an influence yet disinterested enough to be a continual upset as he continued to grow up, which continued to contribute to the problem.

THIS is a very heartbreaking problem for parents and the causes & solutions are complex. I am still grateful to those who let my son participate in healthy, character building activities when he was heavy. He was not going to win a track event but he was out with his school mates and getting some exercise! Some of the comments on this forum are harsh and biting. Joining the scouts might be just what he needs or one peg of many that will help him now and influence him positively for the future. Take this opinion from one who has lived a similar situation. Happily my son, who still wrestles with his weight, is happy, productive and well adjusted from the steps we took to help him deal with and manage tough life changing circumstances.

NOW this young boy has again been singled out and humiliated over what is already a painful issue for him and his parents. Less criticism and more understanding would be a much better example. As I read some of the comments on this thread I consider how the attitudes negatively influence the kids of the posters. When kids & adults ridicule a child (person???) who is already fighting to control a problem, the ridicule just adds to the problem.

WISDOM is the tradeoff that we receive for enduring the effects of aging IMHO. One thing I have learned is that as I deal with my imperfections and work to minimize the effect they have on those that I love, I am hardly in a position to criticize anyone else. I have become much more reflective of other's imperfections as a result, much less likely to make offhand criticisms about them and more understanding in general. (I am not talking about criminal behavior, but of those that I touch in life).

OFTEN I am thankful that I am not wrestling with the same problem, making me happier about those on my plate by comparison.

[chaosagent]

From what I’ve seen looking at these charts in the past, just about all NFL/NBA players are OBESE.

I remember reading back when George W. was shown running and exercising after his yearly physical that based on his height and weight he was also OBESE.

[SZonian]

It’s reality, not emotions that most of us are dealing with. I’m glad for you and your son that things are working out for you, but this is a bit different. I haven’t seen one post that attacks the boy.

I personally know two Scout parents, one a Scoutmaster who is stepping down because his weight has affected his health and he can no longer perform the tasks required of him in that role. That is a man who recognizes reality and is facing it head on.

Another, a Scout parent, recuses himself from activities that he knows he can’t perform. He accepts it. We accept it and the responsibility of ensuring his son comes home safe.

I think you’re comparing apples and oranges here. The adult is the one who isn’t willing to face reality. Somewhere along the line personal accountability and responsibility need to come into play.

SZ