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Best fighter of WWII? (oldtimers poll)

Posted on 04/09/2009 2:29:15 PM PDT by mikeus_maximus

I know there are "seasoned" ex-military types on this board. I'd like your and anyone else's opinion on this topic. Every year of WWII saw improvements in aircraft development and performance-- so much so that what was state of the art at the beginning of the war, such as the Me 109 and Supermarine Spitfire, would have been death traps by the end, 6 years later.

For years I'd heard the P-51 Mustang was the ultimate WWII fighter. Then I read a quote from a former FockWulfe 190 pilot who said Mustangs were frail-- one bullet in the aluminum cowling and they went down. No one can deny their service record, though.

Other sources say the FW 190D was the best plane to come out of WWII. It was built on the same concept as the P-51-- take a good fighter, shoehorn in a huge bomber engine, and now you've got a great fighter. Except in this case it was a radial engine, which could lose one or two cyl. and keep on ticking (as opposed to the Mustang's inline engine).

Some say the Japanese "Frank" fighter produced near the end of the war was tops. Other have said the Russian YAK3 was.

Recently I heard that the F8F Bearcat was undoubtedly the best plane. Grumman took apart a captured FW 190 and made it better. The Bearcat was a plane deisgned from scratch around a huge radial engine, rather than vice versa. It was smaller, faster and more agile than any of the above. It had a production speed of 455 mph, a rate of climb twice that of a Mustang, and a ceiling almost as high. Is was delviered to the Navy in the Pacific theatre, but the war ended before it saw action, or it would have made its own legend. A few years later a modifed version set the airspeed record for piston planes at 528+ mph.

It gets my vote. Anyone else have an opinion?


TOPICS: History
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To: Eye of Unk

Late or not, the P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter in WW II.

Now, I am taling air-superiority “fighter” here. There are other planes, with other missions, but this thread starts with “fighter.”

Speed was up to 426 m.p.h., and best climb to 3,900 ft./min. The “J” would climb to 20,000 ft. in 5.9 minutes.

Nothing else came close.


21 posted on 04/09/2009 2:50:57 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Defend America from the Communist.)
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To: mikeus_maximus

Best fighter: ME262, Hands down.

Best Prop fighter: P-38

Best single engine prop fighter: P-51

The FW-190 and P-47 were both plenty rugged, but lacked the speed and maneuverability of P-51. Better suited to a ground attack role than the p-51. IMHO.


22 posted on 04/09/2009 2:51:19 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The death cult wants death, the Israelis want peace. I, for one, see only one solution.)
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To: Squantos

23 posted on 04/09/2009 2:51:29 PM PDT by frithguild (Can I drill your head now?)
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To: mikeus_maximus
The Messerschmitt Me 262 has to be at the top of the list. Its a hundred miles per hour faster than the nearest competitor, has 4 x 30mm cannon and at the very end was being fitted with rudimentary guided missiles. Had they been supplied in quantity the allied bomber offensive wouldn't have stood a chance. Fortunately Hitler delayed it for a year and by the time it got into service there were P51s waiting above every airfield to ambush them on takeoff and landing (the only time they were really vulnerable).

24 posted on 04/09/2009 2:52:21 PM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian
Without hesitation, I agree. The P-38 Lightning was simply faster, and that's what wins.

Nope, the P-38 was not the fastest, however compressibility was discovered because of the P-38.

The designer, Kelly Johnson, my favorite, who also designed the F-104, P-80, and the SR-71.

25 posted on 04/09/2009 2:53:06 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, Question everyone else)
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To: mnehring
I think, however, the P40 had the most kills

Our pilots or theirs? ;^)

26 posted on 04/09/2009 2:54:29 PM PDT by Loud Mime (If Christians cannot unite in battle to save this nation, it will be lost)
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To: GonzoGOP

Those were cool, but airborne time was what? 15 minutes?


27 posted on 04/09/2009 2:55:19 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Defend America from the Communist.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

The P-38 shot down Yamamotos plane, I have a detailed model of one, one of my favorites, it even has a decal that looks like a small piece of a front page newspaper with a picture of a woman called “Marge” the pilots best gal.

Six Browning machine guns all in the nose, thats firepower!


28 posted on 04/09/2009 2:59:16 PM PDT by Eye of Unk ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Yes I forget the name the Japs gave the P-38 they respected that Plane, The Handy work of MR Johnson.


29 posted on 04/09/2009 2:59:19 PM PDT by Cheetahcat (Osamabama Wright kind of Racist! We are in a state of War with Democrats)
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To: mikeus_maximus

John Basilone. Hands down.


30 posted on 04/09/2009 3:00:03 PM PDT by MattinNJ (Sanford/Palin in 2012)
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To: Squantos
P-38 lightning !

The only US fighter in production before,during, and slightly after the war.

31 posted on 04/09/2009 3:00:29 PM PDT by OpeEdMunkey (We seem to have reached a critical mass of stupid people.)
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To: Eye of Unk

IIRC, the initial Lightnings delivered to the Brits had no superchargers and lacked counterrotating props. I think that the Brits shipped them off to secondary theaters because the just couldn’t compete at high altitudes. The lack of counterrotating props would tend toward handling problems.


32 posted on 04/09/2009 3:01:20 PM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: TheThirdRuffian
90 minutes, 60 at full power. About the same as the Spitfire and P-40, except that it was going a heck of a lot faster so the range in kilometers is longer. It was never going to be an escort fighter, but for strategic defense or gaining control over a battlefield it was unmatched.

You may be thinking of the ME 163. They only had a few minutes of powered flight before they had to glide home.
33 posted on 04/09/2009 3:01:42 PM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: mikeus_maximus

Next question.

34 posted on 04/09/2009 3:01:44 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: mikeus_maximus
For me it would be the Republic XP-72, but the war ended before it went into service.

It was based on a advanced version of the P-47 incorporating the Pratt & Whitney R-4360-13 Wasp Major 28-Cylinder radial air-cooled engine producing 3,450 hp.

It would do 490 mph without the supercharger turned on, top speed was estimated up into the 550 range for the prototype using the contra-rotating props.

In fact there were several fighter offerings to be based on the awesome Pratt & Whitney R-4360 engine. Several of them were to incorporate contra-rotating props to absorb the immense power and torque of the engine.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/xp72.html

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=419

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=2272

35 posted on 04/09/2009 3:02:35 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: Tallguy

Thats very true, and its something that continues to this day, sell a US product but not the SAME product we use.


36 posted on 04/09/2009 3:03:06 PM PDT by Eye of Unk ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
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To: Cheetahcat

Fork-tailed devil, I believe.

I vaugely recall “whistling death” but I (a redleg army guy) know that was the name given our A-10, so I am probably getting that mixed in my mind.


37 posted on 04/09/2009 3:04:37 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Defend America from the Communist.)
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To: Loud Mime
From Wiki:

Although the P-51 Mustang replaced the P-47 in the long-range escort role in Europe, the Thunderbolt still ended the war with 3,752 air-to-air kills claimed in over 746,000 sorties of all types, at the cost of 3,499 P-47s to all causes in combat.[16] In Europe in the critical first three months of 1944 when the German aircraft industry and Berlin were heavily attacked, the P-47 shot down more German fighters than did the P-51 (570 out of 873), and shot down approximately 900 of the 1,983 claimed during the first six months of 1944.[17] In Europe, the Thunderbolt flew more sorties (423,435) than P-51s, P-38s and P-40s combined.

I suppose an equivalent Navy aircraft would have been the F6F Hellcat.

Navy and Marine F6Fs flew 66,530 combat sorties (45% of all fighter sorties of the war, 62,386 sorties were flown from aircraft carriers)[20] and destroyed 5,163 (56% of all Naval/Marine air victories of the war) at a cost of 270 Hellcats (an overall kill-to-loss ratio of 19:1).[21] The aircraft performed well against the best Japanese opponents with a 13:1 kill ratio against Mitsubishi A6M, 9.5:1 against Nakajima Ki-84, and 3.7:1 against Mitsubishi J2M during the last year of the war.[22] The F6F became the prime ace-maker aircraft in the American inventory, with 305 Hellcat aces.[23] That being said, it must be noted that the U.S. successes were not only attributed to superior aircraft, but also because they faced increasingly inexperienced Japanese aviators from 1942 onwards, as well as having the advantage of ever-increasing numerical superiority.

Corsair

By the beginning of 1945, the Corsair was a full-blown "mudfighter", performing strikes with high-explosive bombs, napalm tanks, and HVARs. She proved surprisingly versatile, able to operate everything from Bat glide bombs (without sacrificing a load of 2.75 in/70 mm rockets) to 11.75 in (300 mm) Tiny Tim rockets.[48] The aircraft was a prominent participant in the fighting for the Palaus, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Statistics compiled at the end of the war indicate that the F4U and FG flew 64,051 operational sorties for the U.S. Marines and U.S. Navy through the conflict (44% of total fighter sorties), with only 9,581 sorties (15%) flown from carrier decks.[49] F4U and FG pilots claimed 2,140 air combat victories against 189 losses to enemy aircraft, for an overall kill ratio of over 11:1.[50] The aircraft performed well against the best Japanese opponents with a 12:1 kill ratio against Mitsubishi A6M, 7:1 against Nakajima Ki-84, 13:1 against Kawanishi N1K-J, and 3:1 against Mitsubishi J2M during the last year of the war.[51] The Corsair bore the brunt of fighter-bomber missions, delivering 15,621 tons (14,171 tonnes) of bombs during the war (70% of total bombs dropped by fighters during the war).[50]

38 posted on 04/09/2009 3:04:55 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Blueflag
Don’t leave out the Corsair.

Oh no, not at all! : - D

It was however a mistake in the making when it was designed.

Your dad was a marine wasn't he?

The Corsair was designed to be a carrier plane (Navy) however it was too hard to land because of the long nose on it.

Of course you do know that that's why the wings are inverted gull shape so the landing gear struts were shorter and more stout for hard carrier landings and yet it was able to clear the ground with it's large propeller.

It was also the 1st aircraft to break 400MPH.

39 posted on 04/09/2009 3:05:03 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, Question everyone else)
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To: Loud Mime
That difference of opinion over the Jug and the Mustang is why I believe such discussions are ultimately pointless.

The F6F Hellcat is what killed off the majority of enemy pilots in the PTO, but it never looked as glamorous as the F4U and the P-38 while doing it.

Meanwhile, the P-38 was largely a disappointment in the ETO despite being the USAAF's weapon of choice in the PTO.

What you get in such discussions is a dialogue where proponents talk past one another. The USAAF in the ETO faced a very different foe in the energy fighting Me-109, FW-190, and Me-262, than the USAAF faced in the PTO against various Japanese turn fighters.

The USN, after the Wildcat was relegated to the second string, had aircraft specifically designed to destroy the Mitsubishi Zero and these craft never squared off with the Luftwaffe.

The RAF and its colonial counterparts in the Pacific had a similarly disparate experience. So, "best" discussions are never going to arrive at an actual best aircraft. There were several bests.
40 posted on 04/09/2009 3:05:39 PM PDT by Goldsborough (Yes Lauren, you are not cool enough to own a Mac.)
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