gas piston AR-15 upgrade- worth the $ ?

my gray matter ^ | 1-22-09 | Wobbly Bob

[WOBBLY BOB]

gas piston AR-15 upgrade- worth the $ ?

if so, why? why aren't the military picking it up too ?

[The KG9 Kid]

Hi Beelzebubba,

Reconsider my post. The cost is enormous for a gas piston AR rifle built with parts.

The assembled uppers all start around $1200-$1600 MSRP, but lately because of the panic these uppers are selling for $2000 if you can even find one. People are being told delivery times of up to 24 weeks for their orders.

AR assembled lower + Gas piston upper + various accessories/small parts + quality optics (EOTech, Trijicon ACOG, Aimpoint) and you're already at $3000.

[topsail]

I believe the AR-180 is the original, which is no longer in production. The current model is the AR-180B, which shares some parts with the AR-15.

I don’t understand why the AR-180B isn’t more popular.

[P8riot]

Thr Robinson Arms XCR is another nice one, but pricey.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Ah. When you wrote “gas-operated” I thought you were referring to the conventional gas-operated ARs, not the piston jobs.

[Charles Martel]

I don’t understand why the AR-180B isn’t more popular.

It's not as popular because it's not as "accessorizable" as the AR-15. No vast selection of upper receivers or barrels, rail systems, etc., etc., etc.

I rather like the 180b - just wish I'd boughtone before they doubled in price. Still, bet it's easier to find one of those than any AR-15.

[GL of Sector 2814]

I don’t understand why the AR-180B isn’t more popular.

The AR-15 has become the "500 lb gorilla" of semiauto rifles. No other rifle comes close to the amount of accessories you can buy, and it's awfully cool to able to change calibers by swapping uppers.

[JamesP81]

I don’t understand why the AR-180B isn’t more popular.

Lack of advertising and knowledge, probably. Most people don't even know it's out there, and I've never seen one in a sporting goods store anywhere.

[Charles Martel]

FAL is a my dream .308. Wonder if I'll ever own one now.

You can by a demilled (chopped receiver, but intact barrel) Lithgow Aussie L1A1 parts kit at the Sportsman's Guide for around $270.00, plus an Entreprise Arms inch-pattern receiver for $400 or so. Get thee over to the FAL Files forums and learn how to build it yourself. It's more expensive than it used to be, but no less fun! It's also the cheapest way into a 7.62 NATO battle rifle, even with the various compliance parts (refinishing can come later).

[I Buried My Guns]

"...By seize up, do you mean it jams, or does the bolt carrier actually get stuck in the receiver to where it won't physically move?..."

As the gun gets hotter, resistance increases to the point that it does not want to cycle.

When that happens, the brass gets partially ejected (half sticking out) or not ejected at all. This results in many unfired rounds getting dents in them; I must throw those away.

I have gotten a lot of good tips in the last day, and I have a lot to ponder. I think a factor is all the disparate companies I bought from for all the internals, mostly at gun shows.

I DID use the shellacked Wolf brand when I was young and stupid. I have since learned my lesson!

[JamesP81]

The disparate parts *might* be part of the problem, but then again some of the finest match grade ARs are built from parts, albeit the uppers and lowers in those rifles are usually all of the same make.

It sounds like the upper receiver and the bolt carrier aren't playing well with one another. Might try a bolt carrier of the same make as the upper receiver.

But I'm not sure. If you want to talk to some real experts, go over to the forum at ar15.com. They'll know what to do.

On brands of parts and rifles, the general consensus at ar15.com is that Hesse, Vulcan, and Blackthorne should be avoided. Opinions on Olympic are generally mixed but somewhat negative, although some Olympics work just fine if you use all Olympic parts. Bushmaster, Colt, Stag, Rock River, and Essential Arms are considered above average to excellent quality. CMMG, Lewis Machine and Tool, and Noveske are common choices for high end match grade rifles and parts.

[I Buried My Guns]

Sadly, the lower is indeed Olympic Arms.

[JamesP81]

Sadly, the lower is indeed Olympic Arms.

I still wouldn't give up on the rifle. A lot of people shoot Olympic and they run well, they just tend to be a bit more finicky out of the box. There's a guy in my gun club that shoots an AR in NRA Hi-power competition that's an Olympic. I've got a close friend that's got a full size rifle running on an Olympic lower and it shoots just fine. My experience is that Olympic isn't bad per se, but they are a bit more finicky than other lowers.

Also, I think the problems with your bolt not wanting to cycle probably has more to do with the upper than the lower. This is a dumb question, but I do need to ask it: you have cleaned and lubricated the bolt carrier, I assume?

I would pose a question in the forum at AR15.com. Those guys are geniuses, and they'll likely have an idea what you should try to do.

[Mr Fuji]

Are you running the AR wet, especially the BCG???

[Mr Fuji]

I shouldn’t assume you know all of the lingo of ARFcom etc.

When I say “wet” I mean well lubricated. Also, most likely the lower is not the problem.

[mad_as_he$$]

I quit counting at 250,000 rounds through Olympics. I cannot recall any major problems with any of them. BTW IBMG have you called Olympic and talked to them?

[JamesP81]

I shouldn’t assume you know all of the lingo of ARFcom etc.

When I say “wet” I mean well lubricated. Also, most likely the lower is not the problem.

I think you meant to reply to "I Buried My Guns". He's the one asking the question...

[Mr Fuji]

Ooops...sorry about that James. I got ahead of myself. I meant that ping to go to IBMG.

[I Buried My Guns]

You guys are a font of wisdom, and I thank you all. To review:

A) I break down the bolt carrier assembly completely and clean every individual part. It is completely dry upon reassembly. Wait a minute. I just lied to you. I do not break it down to the point of cleaning the extractor pin/spring, but when I work the mechanism it seems to move freely. I was told it is not necessary to break it down to that extent.

B) Yes the guys at AR15.com are god-like, and I bow down to them in awe. However, I lack the 1.25 years it would take to read every single snippet of wisdom on the site to get to the info that is germaine to my problem. I only started a few days ago, so I should have a grasp on it by the time Obama nukes Kansas and invades Montreal.

C) The upper is a 20" Bushmaster, I think (there are no identifying markings that I can see), and it is a good hunk of iron; I have switched it out with my other AR15 and it works well on that platform.

Anyway, me and the boys are going to central-esque TX tomorrow to blow $hit up with our guns (one friend wants to test the theory that he can cut down a tree with his Mauser in 6.5mm). I am gonna clean the heck outa my ARs before we go; I will act upon your advice and get back to you with the results.

[Mr Fuji]

Let me address your points individually:

A) I break down the bolt carrier assembly completely and clean every individual part. It is completely dry upon reassembly. Wait a minute. I just lied to you. I do not break it down to the point of cleaning the extractor pin/spring, but when I work the mechanism it seems to move freely. I was told it is not necessary to break it down to that extent.

What do you do with the BCG after cleaning and drying? Do you reassemble the BCG and reinsert it back into the upper receiver without lubrication? Or do you lubricate all the parts as you reassmble the BCG and then insert it back into the upper receiver?

B) Yes the guys at AR15.com are god-like, and I bow down to them in awe. However, I lack the 1.25 years it would take to read every single snippet of wisdom on the site to get to the info that is germaine to my problem. I only started a few days ago, so I should have a grasp on it by the time Obama nukes Kansas and invades Montreal.

I know what you are saying, which is why I didn't recommend for you to go over there.....just yet.

C) The upper is a 20" Bushmaster, I think (there are no identifying markings that I can see), and it is a good hunk of iron; I have switched it out with my other AR15 and it works well on that platform.

If you have you swapped the upper/lowers between your AR's, does the problem follow the upper or lower receiver of your problem rifle?

[JamesP81]

A) I break down the bolt carrier assembly completely and clean every individual part. It is completely dry upon reassembly. Wait a minute. I just lied to you. I do not break it down to the point of cleaning the extractor pin/spring, but when I work the mechanism it seems to move freely. I was told it is not necessary to break it down to that extent.

You're correct about the extractor; as long as the extractor has good strong spring tension, it should be fine as is.

However, I would lubricate all contact surfaces before reassembly. I would put a light coating of lubricating oil on the entire surface of the bolt carrier. The bolt carrier spends a lot of time in close contact with the upper receiver housing, and it will run better with a bit of oil.