Posted on 01/21/2009 4:06:15 PM PST by JoeProBono
The Labrador Retriever certainly has a lock on the hearts of American dog lovers. For the eighteenth straight year, the Lab has topped the American Kennel Club's list of the nation's 10 most popular purebred dog breeds. The top 10 dogs are ranked as follows: Labrador Retriever, Yorkshire Terrier, German Shepherd Dog, Golden Retriever, Beagle, Boxer, Dachshund, Bulldog, Poodle and Shi Tzu.
(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...
Sorry I didn’t reply sooner but GOOD FOR YOU! Babe (my rattie) and I salute you! My girl was in the dog pound for over a month. They thought she was de-barked because they had taken her to several adoption events and she’d never made a sound. Within the first few hours of our “falling in love” she was barking and whining for me. I was at work and there wasn’t much I could do. The adoption volunteer couldn’t believe that Babe was making noise. She picked me and I am blessed. I’m sure your Rattie is the same for you. BTW, I’ve lost a couple of pant sizes just by trying to keep her exercised!!!!
May you be as blessed as I am by your new family member, and I’m sure you are.
Get her to pick up a dog or a pup(as in just snuggle). I lost my old dog in October. I wanted to follow what Cesar Millon says about appropriate grieving. One day about a month later I was supposed to take possession a a cute little brown Chihuahua. I called the owner and said I couldn’t do it. I still missed my old dog, Bruce, too much.Later that day at an adoption event where I work, I picked up a 3 year old Rat Terrier and fell deeply in love. I love her more every minute. Let her grieve, but expose her to possibilities. My new love is very different from my last love. For me that helped.
Interesting, I have first hand experience and you have heresay. But, whatever.
LOL it’s all a front, they are totally silly! That’s the thing about cockers too, they are such clowns!
When you feel bad that you can’t save them all just remember the story of the starfish on the beach. It matters to the one(s) you did save.
I never get a straight answer when I ask what AKC has done that has to do with an individual's breeding program. When AKC accepted Aussies, did the people who were breeding for herding suddenly forced to stop breeding for that? How did AKC recognition affect their breeding programs? I'm really curious, because I hear that old canard that AKC ruins breeds all the time, but no one can tell me specifically why. In my breed there are plenty of people who breed only for field ability. They are quite welcome in our clubs and groups and we applaud their successes. Many show breeders also do some field work (I admit most don't do field trials, but that has much to do with time and money issues). BTW I did do a little reading and the real crux of the matter with border collie folk seems to have been that they could not longer ILP their dogs (via the misc class) and run them in AKC events if the breed wasn't given AKC registration status. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
AKC views shelters as competition? Where do you get that? You really have to explain what you mean by that, because it makes no sense, since AKC doesn’t breed dogs (and people with AKC registered dogs don’t *belong* to AKC). So, how exactly are shelter dogs competition? Competition for WHAT?
As for the standards, they are supposed to be written to describe the perfect working dog. If the BC groups don’t like the standard, I would have to say they can blame themselves since they refused to be involved in the process. I remember when we were working on AKC acceptance of Spinoni, the main thing they required in our standard was that it fit their format and that it was understandable.
Unfortunately, there are always people who think that if a little of something is good (say coat) then more is better. I would love to see mentor programs for new breeders, but I don’t think that will ever happen (altho people would be smart to seek out mentors on their own).
However, I will ask you again. How does this impact working BC breeding programs?
LOL
I admit I just couldn’t live with one. But they are so beautiful on the move. I always think it funny when someone gets a hound (basset or beagle usually) and then complains because they dig and howl! Hey, it’s what they do. They’re great dogs, but they were bred to do certain things.
I have never been around a treeing walker, but one of my husband’s friends ran a pack of catahoula (mixed with something, I can’t remember) that he used on bear and wild pigs. They weren’t very friendly tho. ;)
What great advice. I have been so fortunate to never lose a dog when I didn’t have a houseful. It doesn’t make me not miss the one I lost, but it does help fill the hole a little. I do admit that I miss my 3 oldies who all died around 2000 often. They were good dogs. I do hope we have our dogs in Heaven.
I'd have to find it again. A woman receiving an award from the AKC described shelters as actually being commercial operations competing with breeders. She discussed falling registrations with AKC and objected to shelters adopting dogs out, since they were really selling them. She also claimed there was no such thing as a puppy mill, and that large commercial breeders needed to emphasize this. She works with the AKC on legislative matters. I didn't save the link. It was about 6 months ago.
"As for the standards, they are supposed to be written to describe the perfect working dog. If the BC groups don’t like the standard, I would have to say they can blame themselves since they refused to be involved in the process."
The objection of the existing BC Clubs WAS a physical standard. For ISDS & USBCC, the standard is work. No one gives a rat's rear end how the dog looks. Various clubs proposed a working standard, or even a compromise with working required before showing, but the AKC refused. They have also, I'm told, rejected some of the inputs of the BC Club they eventually used, which was formed solely to get BCs in the AKC for show.
"Unfortunately, there are always people who think that if a little of something is good (say coat) then more is better."
It wouldn't bother me, IF it were the breeders who were screwing up. However, it is the JUDGES approved by the AKC who don't know what a BC looks like, or who want deformed GSDs winning titles.
"However, I will ask you again. How does this impact working BC breeding programs?"
As long as the other registries (ABCA/ISDS) can convince most breeders and buyers to stay away from AKC, the damage is limited. However, the show BCs are developing into a separate breed, neither looking like nor behaving like real Border Collies. For a 'new' registry to drive development of a new breed while calling it by the old name is a foul. And since the AKC is the largest registry of dogs, the public tends to fall for their line. They think AKC BCs ARE real Border Collies, and don't know they are being cheated (or saved, since real BCs can be a handful for the average pet home).
Long term, it is bad for the breed.
When the Aussie breeders gave in and came under the AKC, the registries keeping track of working Aussies died. They couldn't handle the competition from a huge registry like the AKC. You can still find a working Aussie, but it is very hard. It took me a month to find one, and then he wouldn't sell to a non-working home because there were so few working Aussies left! The one in my home came from a rescue, and he has ZERO herding ability. Great family dog, but worthless for work. Most breeders claim their Aussies come from working lines, but very few are left breeding them. As to why they joined, it was money. Some breeders who cared more for cash than the breed pushed for acceptance.
I'm really curious, because I hear that old canard that AKC ruins breeds all the time, but no one can tell me specifically why. In my breed there are plenty of people who breed only for field ability.
Maybe it is an old canard because it is true? Look at the GSDs winning shows. They look nothing like the original, or even the working lines. Look at the Aussies. Heck, look at bulldogs in the 1800s. Think of poodles, who were once good hunting dogs. Think of the fight the JRTs had with the AKC.
BTW, I did do a little reading and the real crux of the matter with border collie folk seems to have been that they could not longer ILP their dogs (via the misc class) and run them in AKC events if the breed wasn't given AKC registration status. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
You have described sport breeders, who were already having a negative impact on Border Collies. I support dog sports, but taking a breed meant for work and breeding them for agility or show is wrong. It destroys the ability that made the breed special. A good working BC will also be a good agility dog or a good pet. A dog bred for agility may be a rotten pet - too much emphasis on speed, too little on control. One bred for show is worth darn near nothing, but the average family doesn't know that. It was an issue already causing problems for BCs before the AKC. The AKC has increased the pressure.
Question for you - how has AKC 'recognition' helped GSDs, Aussies or Border Collies?
I searched for one who would do just that. There now is a group dedicated to the hunting poodle, but the AKC insists on these stupid conformity rules that even regulate the type of haircut that the poodle can have, and has placed it in the "non-sporting" group.
Believe me, my poodle can hunt! ...but I wouldn't get far with him in the show ring...
We had a poodle when I was a kid. He was the toughest little dog I’ve ever met. Extremely athletic and very high pain tolerance. Nothing like what people think of poodles.
First, I’d love to read that if you can find it (AKC vs shelters).
It is true that some shelters act like commercial enterprises (even to the point of importing dogs from foreign countries when they don’t have enough puppies to sell). And I do often have beefs with AKC, I don’t think they’ve done nearly enough to stem puppy mill breeders. However, the reason the dog world is starting to shy away from that term, *puppy mill* is because the AR groups are pointing at anyone who breeds and calling them a puppy mill.
As for judges, they can only judge what is brought before them. And it is indeed the rare judge who will withhold ribbons from dogs, so if border collie breeders bring a certain type of dog to the judge, they are going to judge that. What you’re telling me is that people who are breeding BCs and showing them are not breeding to whatever standard you think they should. That’s a separate problem, and one I can agree with you on, as it’s happened from time to time in my own breed. But, my goal is not to win ribbons (I like it, don’t get me wrong) but to breed to the standard as written.
I cannot comment in particulars on the BC issues, since I can only cite what I read on the internet and most of it is written by angry people who didn’t want AKC recognition for the breed, so I have to assume some bias.
Lastly, if people still want to breed Aussies or BCs for herding, no one is going to stop them. The only downside to people breeding AKC registered BCs is that it would cut into puppy sales for the breeders who are not breeding AKC registered BCs. (Please correct me if I misunderstood your point there).
I would say, from my relatively limited experience with border collies is that while they are very smart and great little dogs, they are probably unsuitable for many pet homes, since they really seem to need a job. If that is honestly the case, I can’t imagine that people out there who are breeding for herding are selling many to pet homes anyway.
So, I still don’t see how AKC recognition is affecting their breeding programs.
BTW thank you for a sane discussion of this. It can be a very emotional issue. We will likely never agree, but we can still discuss it.
I really love standard poodles. I can never figure out why anyone thinks they are improved by adding another breed (all the doodle mixes).
As for AKC, why would you be concerned about AKC requirements for showing if you don’t show? I think it’s great that you hunt with yours. And, have you ever seen pictures of them in the original coat (before the pom poms, which I do agree look silly)? They were quite striking looking!
Here are some interesting pictures of old poodles.
http://www.torontodoggroomer.ca/photo2.html
People can still breed for herding, but it is getting hard with Aussies. There are no longer any registries keeping track of working bred dogs. My concern isn't with cutting sales, since working Border Collies usually have no problem selling pups. My problem is a) it dilutes the breed, and b) people think they are getting real border collies, but are only getting look-alikes. I believe the original collie was much like the border collie, before it was bred for show, coneheads, etc. If the AKC would change the name of what they are registering - American Agility Dogs, or some such thing, then I wouldn't object at all.
"I would say, from my relatively limited experience with border collies is that while they are very smart and great little dogs, they are probably unsuitable for many pet homes, since they really seem to need a job. If that is honestly the case, I can’t imagine that people out there who are breeding for herding are selling many to pet homes anyway."
BCs bred for work make fine pets. They are intense - probably too intense for what many desire - but they can loaf around with the best of them if needed. They don't need a job as much as they need their people. A hyper BC on a farm doesn't herd sheep, he chases them - and gets shot. I strongly encourage someone thinking about a BC as a pet work with a rescue to get a dog that an experienced owner has evaluated for personality.
Our original BC:
"So, I still don’t see how AKC recognition is affecting their breeding programs."
As long as the competing registries register more Border Collies, and they do right now - about 90% - then the harm is minimal. The harm is mainly to a buyer who thinks he is getting a Border Collie, when he is really getting a heavy-boned, long haired, B&W dog. However, in the past, competing registries have had a hard time staying around in competition with the well known and vastly larger AKC.
And I agree - thanks for the polite discussion.
When the Aussie breeders gave in and came under the AKC, the registries keeping track of working Aussies died.
I simply don't understand why, if there were a vibrant community of Aussie breeders breeding for herding, how AKC recognition caused them to stop their registry. I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a cop out.
I can't really speak for any of the breeds you asked about, since I am completely unfamiliar with their history. I don't care for show GSD myself, I hate what the BREEDERS have done to their rears. On the other hand it is still QUITE possible to get a good working GSD if that's what you want. People are still breeding them. So, While I don't care for the direction the show breeding took them, it hasn't hurt those breeding for working shepherds at all, as far as I can tell.
The only other thing I can say is that, while I love to watch dogs work in whatever it is they do (herding dogs, man, that is just amazing to watch) many of these breeds would go by the wayside nowadays since so few people actually do the things they were bred for. That may be ok with you, but I think that if there are people out there who love the breed and want to take them a different direction, that's ok with me. My own breed (golden retrievers) are splitting also. You have field bred dogs, show bred, obedience, etc. I see this as healthy, because I can take my dog and infuse hunting genes in my line quite easily, if I feel that I'm losing that. So, that diversity, to me, is a real plus.
What a great picture!
I've seen those corded poodles. The cords aren't practical when hunting in the bushes. They snag and tear, often causing injury. The best cut for a sporting poodle is the sporting clip. That's what I keep my dog in except in the winter I let him grow out for warmth.
The Dread Boston Salty is chagrined that Boston terriers didn’t make the list!
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