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To: Ozymandi

[[You and I are of aligned mind on the subject at hand. I will fully admit that I am perhaps overly sensitive to Creationism and ID in conservative thought, largely because I work in a field (computational security) in which the large-scale principles of evolution (macro-evolution- the self replication of successful patterns of information in a computational environment) is beyond proven-]]

Yes, simple patterns do exist and can ‘evolve’, as in vortexes, and other natural phenomena, however, they in no way correleate to extremely complex biological realities- it is impossible to create the metainfo seen in species via simplistic patterning of genetic ifnromation.

[[Before you play “gotcha” on me, yes I understand that the computational environment I work in was quite explicitly “created” by human means.]]

Big Big difference between ID computer systems and natural life I’m afraid- Again, what you are workign with is a simplistic form of DESIGNED metainfo, and controlled outcomes that protect the ‘random’ happenings that hte software is designed to protect. However, you can’t argue that because we design metainfo that nature is capable of creatign metainfo without a designer. The metainfo in life species is far more compelx and designed than what you work with, and if anythign, this should indicate that a designer really is behind life’s metainfo and complexities


179 posted on 01/21/2009 12:51:36 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop
Yes, simple patterns do exist and can ‘evolve’, as in vortexes, and other natural phenomena, however, they in no way correleate to extremely complex biological realities-

I'm afraid this assertion is mistaken, as in fact simple patterns in computational security do in fact correlate quite clearly and explicitly with biological models of pathology (virii), and this is currently a field of an incredible amount of research. (Google it, it's interesting stuff;))

Granted, we're only at the level of modeling the simpler biological realities at this point, but that's irrelevant to my point that the correlation does exist, and it is functionally predictive. In fact, my specific field is the development of "antibody" tags in computer systems, that is, a system for detecting and recognizing the telltale markers of pathogenic behavior in computational system utilizing a mechanism directly lifted from biological study of the human immunology. (Please forgive me for not being more specific, details beyond this abstract are highly protected trade secrets).

The point, however, is that I can assure you that indeed, these simple patterns can and do "evolve" into systems which mirror complex biological realities, to the point that the functional predictive potential of biological immunology theory can be made to directly translate to a form of "Computational Immunology Theory." No, of course, this correlation in no way implies causation, I.E. simply because computers model biology in no way implies that biology is based in the same basic, simple logic of computers: but to say no correlation can exist is simply and flatly incorrect.

Who created the metainfo? Is nature capable of doing so? I'm not sure. I can assure you that human beings did not "intentionally" create an immunological nature to software behavior theory, that is something that we have found through observation, not intentional engineering. Who created it. did Nature? Did God? Did We? I don't know, don't claim to, don't even want to. That's cosmology, and beyond the scope of my professional expertise. All I can tell you is that it is there.

Thanks for the prompt response! I'm enjoying this immensely.

198 posted on 01/21/2009 1:27:09 PM PST by Ozymandi
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