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To: Sherman Logan
The ideology died on the Continent because the constant foreign warfare indulged in by Europeans required a single decision maker, as warfare always does. Poland, for example, tried to hold onto the ideal of “aristocratic freedom,” and was absorbed by its neighbors as a result. Britain, alone on an island, didn’t face this dilemma, and the ideology was able to survive and thrive

From 1154 to 1558 England was a continental European nation, and still managed to produce Magna Carta, the Provisions of Oxford, and the Model Parliament.

31 posted on 01/09/2009 7:12:26 PM PST by Oztrich Boy ("The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule." - H L Mencken.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
From 1154 to 1558 England was a continental European nation

Not exactly. During the period in question England was a (part of an )island nation with colonies and conquests on the continent. France and Spain, as it turned out, were unable to really get at England, while the English were always able to attack them and then retreat to their invulnerable stronghold.

Also, during most of the period you mention "aristocratic freedom" was a fully competitive ideology in most of Europe. It wasn't until the early modern period, when gunpowder and particularly artillery became critical to war-making capability that kings throughout Europe were able to crush their fractious nobles. When making war mostly consisted of men and horses, an ad hoc noble coalition could go toe to toe with the king fairly well.

Once an artillery train, financially beyond the capability of nobles, became a necessity, the nobles couldn't compete. Particularly because the artillery allowed the king to demolish their castles in hours or days. Before this, capturing a castle required weeks or months of siege work, which meant a noble coalition could drag resistance out for years and wear the king down.

The great English documents you mention had counterparts in most European nations. Almost every European nation had an analogue to the English Parliament. The difference is that kings gained power in Europe after 1400 and lost power in England. The promising beginnings of free institutions were crushed in one European country after another, but survived in England. I believe we sometimes don't fully realize how amazing this is.

32 posted on 01/09/2009 8:55:38 PM PST by Sherman Logan (Everyone has a right to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.)
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