“I didn’t see any Muslims in the street protesting the REPORTER’S actions.”
Because the ones that take offense to the reporters actions aren’t a bunch of drones waiting for someone like al-Sadr to tell them what to do.
“The idea of “moderate” Muslims is simply a myth.”
Yeah, you’ve already claimed that America is at war with Islam. Yet we’ve had our military bases set up throughout the Muslim world for decades. Radical Muslims don’t willfully host western troops. This is why al-Qaeda calls for the overthow of these regimes.
“No its not.”
Yes it is. Your accusation that the attacks is santioned by the government of Iraq isn’t supported by fact. The Christians, along with other refugees are returning as the security improves. It is the IA that is helping to provide this security.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/10/28/59071.html
“Turkey is a non-Arab country.”
They are an Islamic country.
“The “democracy” in Turkey is only there because the Turkish military is ready to crush the extreme radicals there”
The Turkish military are Muslims.
“I thought the objective was to..”
The objective was to create a democratic Iraq. If you bothered to study the legislation that authorized the conflict, you would already know this.
“If it was to “democratize” a geographic entity... you can be very sure NOBODY would have supported it. “
Wrong. It was supported by both Congress and the White House.
“Although in Bush’s clueless mind, the objective you present was probably always simmering there.”
The objective I presented was presented within the congressional legislation that authorized Operation Iraqi Freedom. How do you think the operation got it’s name? It is called ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’, not ‘Operation Remove Saddam and Allow al-Qaeda and Iran Fill The Void’.
“Optimally I would remove each and every one and return them to the Umma.”
And here you are proposing that we deport millions of American citizens because of their religion.
“the ONLY justification for expending American lives and money in Iraq was in American self interest and self defense.”
A democratic Iraq is an ally against al-Qaeda and is not a threat. This is obvious to those who don’t run around claiming that Iraq is a failure and ranting on about ‘neocons’.
“Now YOU sound politically correct. “
I’m simply repeating Reagan’s assertion.
“Also, Reagan had limited exposure to Islam as his attention was directed elsewhere “
Someone who still claims that Iraqi is a failure, blames ‘neo-cons’ is now insinuating that Reagan was ignorant.
“But then Islam was hardly a blimp on radar screen at the time..”
Reagan helped foster our alliances within the Muslim world. The allied Muslim nations flooded the markets with cheap oil which helped bankrupt the Soviet Union.
[Freedom is not the sole prerogative of a lucky few but the inalienable and universal right of all human beings. Democracy already flourishes in countries with very different cultures and historical experiences. It would be cultural condescension, or worse, to say that any people prefer dictatorship to democracy.]-Ronald Reagan
Lame response. IN fact, despite all the hostage takings, beheadings, etc., Mainstreet Islam has NEVER taken to the street to protest ANY of these radical actions. If anything, the direct OPPOSITE has occurred.
“Yet we’ve had our military bases set up throughout the Muslim world for decades. Radical Muslims don’t willfully host western troops.”
I think I explained that.
“Yes it is. Your accusation that the attacks is sanctioned by the government of Iraq isn’t supported by fact. The Christians, along with other refugees are returning as the security improves. It is the IA that is helping to provide this security.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/10/28/59071.html";
Big deal. THOUSANDS of Christian families have been forced from their homes and less than a couple of hundred go back.
What does THAT tell you?
“They are an Islamic country.”
I SAID they were a non-Arab Country. The Arab and Iranian flavors of Islam are generally the most virulent.
“The Turkish military are Muslims.”
The Turkish Military, like the Pakistani Military may be Muslim but they are also professional soldiers and know which side their bread is buttered on - for the present.
“The objective was to create a democratic Iraq. “
You keep saying that. I don't care how many obscure documents you drag up to justify that position. The reasons presented by the Administration, the news, the U.S. and other intelligence services were all good ones but this reason, if mentioned at all, was barely a footnote. I know, I watched it closely on the News. THIS reason was one the Bush Administration did not popularize until later. And It doesn't change my mind one whit.
“Wrong. It was supported by both Congress and the White House.”
I disagree. This was NOT a primary reason for invasion and hardly mentioned at all if it was even mentioned originally.
“And here you are proposing that we deport millions of American citizens because of their religion.”
No. I am proposing we deport millions of individuals who consider themselves primarily citizens of a world political/social/theological system the Umma, which is dedicated to the destruction of everything western civilization has ever stood for and which struggled for centuries to achieve.
“A democratic Iraq is an ally against al-Qaeda and is not a threat.”
Time will tell. But I remain highly skeptical of any efforts to create a Democracy in an Islamist State and have no reliance in any loyalty of a Muslim entity beyond their own immediate needs. Remember the Mujaheddin we helped against the Russians in Afghanistan? Supporting democracy in an Islamist state is like letting the evil genie out of the bottle.
“This is obvious to those who don’t run around claiming that Iraq is a failure and ranting on about ‘neocons’.”
I'm hardly the ONLY person to make the statement about neo-cons supporting this flawed thinking about Iraq and creating a democracy there. This forum is replete with similar postings from other posters.
“I’m simply repeating Reagan’s assertion.”
And I simply made a statement about how Reagan misunderstood Islam. Nobody is perfect, and given the political dynamics of the time, it is perfectly understandable why he did. At the time I felt like he did.
But if he was alive today, my guess is he would agree with me and not Bush II, given the revelation about the nature of the beast we are facing.
“Someone who still claims that Iraqi is a failure, blames ‘neo-cons’ is now insinuating that Reagan was ignorant.”
You are pretty good at putting words in other people's mouths. I never said Reagan was ignorant. I said he was unaware of the real situation regarding Islam at the time and I said I was also. Neither Reagan nor I am “ignorant”.
“Reagan helped foster our alliances within the Muslim world.”
Given the dynamics of the time he did. But the reality of the Islamic Threat was not apparent at the time. And the western “romance” with Islamic states goes back to WW1 and Lawrence of Arabia and the War with the Ottoman Empire, so its hardly a new thing anyway.
“The allied Muslim nations flooded the markets with cheap oil which helped bankrupt the Soviet Union.”
???????????????????????????????????? Reagan was able to destroy the Soviet Union because he outspent them militarily and they were unable to compete and still support their population. I am not aware of any actions that the Islamic States undertook, except their self-interested actions in Afghanistan, to bring down the Soviet Union and its unlikely oil had anything to do with it.
"The allied Muslim nations flooded the markets with cheap oil which helped bankrupt the Soviet Union."
I can give you links too. Check out:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081218140720.bjo31lvg&show_article=1
Iraq is a seething cauldron filled with boiling hostility as are most Isalmic sheikdoms. They are not even nations in the sense the west understands that term. As soon as we pull out, everything will collapse over there.
As long as Islam is practiced in its present state, i.e. as a political/social/theological system which supports and justifies a theocracy and violence to spread that theocracy, which condones brutal and inhuman treatment of people - especially women and non-Muslims, as long as it approves of religious intolerance, as long as it supports second class citizenship for non-Muslims, and as long as it views the world as a stage for a battle between the Umma and all non-Muslims, Islam and Muslims are incompatible with western civilization.