Agility in Iraq: Bush ducks thrown shoes

“Because the ones that take offense to the reporters actions aren’t a bunch of drones waiting for someone like al-Sadr to tell them what to do.”

Lame response. IN fact, despite all the hostage takings, beheadings, etc., Mainstreet Islam has NEVER taken to the street to protest ANY of these radical actions. If anything, the direct OPPOSITE has occurred.

“Yet we’ve had our military bases set up throughout the Muslim world for decades. Radical Muslims don’t willfully host western troops.”

I think I explained that.

“Yes it is. Your accusation that the attacks is sanctioned by the government of Iraq isn’t supported by fact. The Christians, along with other refugees are returning as the security improves. It is the IA that is helping to provide this security.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/10/28/59071.html";

Big deal. THOUSANDS of Christian families have been forced from their homes and less than a couple of hundred go back.
What does THAT tell you?

“They are an Islamic country.”

I SAID they were a non-Arab Country. The Arab and Iranian flavors of Islam are generally the most virulent.

“The Turkish military are Muslims.”

The Turkish Military, like the Pakistani Military may be Muslim but they are also professional soldiers and know which side their bread is buttered on - for the present.

“The objective was to create a democratic Iraq. “

You keep saying that. I don't care how many obscure documents you drag up to justify that position. The reasons presented by the Administration, the news, the U.S. and other intelligence services were all good ones but this reason, if mentioned at all, was barely a footnote. I know, I watched it closely on the News. THIS reason was one the Bush Administration did not popularize until later. And It doesn't change my mind one whit.

“Wrong. It was supported by both Congress and the White House.”

I disagree. This was NOT a primary reason for invasion and hardly mentioned at all if it was even mentioned originally.

“And here you are proposing that we deport millions of American citizens because of their religion.”

No. I am proposing we deport millions of individuals who consider themselves primarily citizens of a world political/social/theological system the Umma, which is dedicated to the destruction of everything western civilization has ever stood for and which struggled for centuries to achieve.

“A democratic Iraq is an ally against al-Qaeda and is not a threat.”

Time will tell. But I remain highly skeptical of any efforts to create a Democracy in an Islamist State and have no reliance in any loyalty of a Muslim entity beyond their own immediate needs. Remember the Mujaheddin we helped against the Russians in Afghanistan? Supporting democracy in an Islamist state is like letting the evil genie out of the bottle.

“This is obvious to those who don’t run around claiming that Iraq is a failure and ranting on about ‘neocons’.”

I'm hardly the ONLY person to make the statement about neo-cons supporting this flawed thinking about Iraq and creating a democracy there. This forum is replete with similar postings from other posters.

“I’m simply repeating Reagan’s assertion.”

And I simply made a statement about how Reagan misunderstood Islam. Nobody is perfect, and given the political dynamics of the time, it is perfectly understandable why he did. At the time I felt like he did.

But if he was alive today, my guess is he would agree with me and not Bush II, given the revelation about the nature of the beast we are facing.

“Someone who still claims that Iraqi is a failure, blames ‘neo-cons’ is now insinuating that Reagan was ignorant.”

You are pretty good at putting words in other people's mouths. I never said Reagan was ignorant. I said he was unaware of the real situation regarding Islam at the time and I said I was also. Neither Reagan nor I am “ignorant”.

“Reagan helped foster our alliances within the Muslim world.”

Given the dynamics of the time he did. But the reality of the Islamic Threat was not apparent at the time. And the western “romance” with Islamic states goes back to WW1 and Lawrence of Arabia and the War with the Ottoman Empire, so its hardly a new thing anyway.

“The allied Muslim nations flooded the markets with cheap oil which helped bankrupt the Soviet Union.”

???????????????????????????????????? Reagan was able to destroy the Soviet Union because he outspent them militarily and they were unable to compete and still support their population. I am not aware of any actions that the Islamic States undertook, except their self-interested actions in Afghanistan, to bring down the Soviet Union and its unlikely oil had anything to do with it.

"The allied Muslim nations flooded the markets with cheap oil which helped bankrupt the Soviet Union."

I can give you links too. Check out:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081218140720.bjo31lvg&show_article=1

Iraq is a seething cauldron filled with boiling hostility as are most Isalmic sheikdoms. They are not even nations in the sense the west understands that term. As soon as we pull out, everything will collapse over there.

As long as Islam is practiced in its present state, i.e. as a political/social/theological system which supports and justifies a theocracy and violence to spread that theocracy, which condones brutal and inhuman treatment of people - especially women and non-Muslims, as long as it approves of religious intolerance, as long as it supports second class citizenship for non-Muslims, and as long as it views the world as a stage for a battle between the Umma and all non-Muslims, Islam and Muslims are incompatible with western civilization.

“Lame response.”

A lame response is someone trying to argue against Operation Iraqi Freedom without even knowing the legislative objectives.

“I think I explained that.”

You claim we are at war with Islam (which is the same nonsense al-Qaeda propagates), yet we have military bases throughout the Muslim world.

“Big deal.”

I cite the fact that Christain families are returning to Iraq as the government assisted security improves, even having financial incentive from the Iraqi government for doing so, and your response ‘Big deal’. Figures.

“flavors of Islam..”

You just make things up as you go along.

“You keep saying that. I don’t care how many obscure documents you drag up to justify that position.”

The congressional legislation that authorized the conflict isn’t an ‘obscure document’.

“I disagree. “

In reality, the congressional legislation that was supported by both the congress and the White House made clear that creating a democratic Iraq was the objective. Disagreeing with this fact only highlights your ignorance.

“No. I am proposing we deport millions of individuals who consider themselves....”

Are you pretending I can’t move my scoll bar up to read what you wrote? You had claimed ‘At the very least, I would allow no more Muslims into the west. Optimally I would remove each and every one and return them to the Umma.’ You’ve already admitted that you would deport millions of US citizens based on their religious beliefs. Just like congressional legislation, I take it you consider the US Constitution to be some obscure document as well. If I was a lefty who was trying to discredit The Free Republic website, I would paint freepers as radicals and point to your absurd rants as an example. I’d say that they want to deport millions of law abiding US citizens because of their religious beliefs and I’d use your post as proof. You need to go back to stormfront where you belong.

“You claim we are at war with Islam (which is the same nonsense al-Qaeda propagates), yet we have military bases throughout the Muslim world.”

Only a politician or an historical illiterate could look at the Haddiths, the Koran, the history of Islam, the current status of non-Muslims in Islamic Countries, the actions of Islamic immigrants in western Europe and the way some of our Islamic “allies” like the Saudis treat non-Muslims and assume the contrary.

“I cite the fact that Christain families are returning to Iraq as the government assisted security improves, even having financial incentive from the Iraqi government for doing so, and your response ‘Big deal’. Figures.”

The very article you linked me to stated that “thousands of Christian familes” have been forced to flee and less than 200 have returned. THAT’S progress?

“You just make things up as you go along.”

Oh? REALLY? Do reality and yourself a favor and pick up a book on the Saud Family, Wahhabism, their connections with Wahhabism, and the early history of that sect and its present rules in Saudi Arabis. Read about the THOUSANDS of MUSLIMS the Saudis killed only a century or so ago in their efforts to “purify” the Kingdom and remove non-Wahhabist Muslims. Check out the actions of the Saudi body for the Presevation of Virtue and the Suppression of Vice which terrorizes women and non-Muslims in the Kingdom. Read about the deal the U.S. had to cut to forbid carrying of Bibles or Torahs by Troops stationed in the Kingdom or the wearing of Stars of David or Crosses there. NO OTHER RELIGION IS PERMITTED TO EXIST IN SAUDI ARABIA EXCEPT ISLAM AND EVEN THEN ONLY WAHHABISM IS PERMITTED. The Saudis continue to finance madrassehs and mosques and clerics in the west who teach anti-semitic, anti-Christian nonsense. Their own schools and texbooks in the Kingdom do so. And I make this UP???

At NO TIME was the war in Iraq presented as a crusade to democratize Iraq until well after Saddam was deafeated. It was presented and CONTINUES to be presented as a war to fight Islamic terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them here. Only AFTER we leave will it be determined if my opinion or yours is correct. My opinion is based on history and contemorary behavior of Islamic states. YOURS is based on personal opinion.

“Are you pretending I can’t move my scoll bar up to read what you wrote? “

I was defining WHO Muslims are and WHAT they believe. You can’t argue that point, so you are attacking me because my solution appears a radical one to you. Radical problems require radical answers.

Viewing the actions of Muslims in western Europe and the historical behavior of this group EVERYWHERE they have gone as WELL as the unreconstructed political and social theories of the overwhelming number of them, what is YOUR solution?

Allowing the establishment of parallel justice systems here as they have imposed in Britain?

What exactly is YOUR solution for dealing with Islam in the west?

“Only a politician or an historical illiterate...”

Only a fool would pretend we are at war with Islam when we have military bases throughout the Muslim world.

” Do reality and yourself a favor and pick up a book on the Saud Family, Wahhabism...”

Just a bunch of senseless non sequiturs. Here your pretending Iraqis, a majority of which are Shias and Kurds, subscribe to Wahhabism.

“so you are attacking me because my solution appears a radical one to you”

I’m pointing out the absurdity of your goofy suggestion that millions of American citizens be deported because of their religion.

“At NO TIME was the war in Iraq presented as a crusade to democratize Iraq until well after Saddam was deafeated.”

Using caps doesn’t nullify the fact that it was the objective within the congressional authorization prior to the actual invasion. You were wrong when you denied this before and you’re still wrong, even when you use caps.

“YOURS is based on personal opinion.”

I didn’t write the congressional authorization. It’s a matter of record, not personal opinion.

“What exactly is YOUR solution for dealing with Islam in the west?”

I’m not the one pretending that all Muslims are radical terrorists and that America is at war with an entire religion.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.