Posted on 12/14/2008 11:24:20 AM PST by Star Traveler
What is your point, and what is with all the “LOL”s?
You cannot have it both ways. Either we ban the IC engine or we buy foreign oil. Not to mention that if we DID get every single car off the road tomorrow we would STILL be importing about 40% of what we do now. Cars are not the only things we use petroleum for.
You said — “2) Did you notice the one question has a flawed choice? Bring a video camera to the immaculate conception? Do we really want to see an amateur porn video of Mary’s parents in coitus?”
Ummmm..., I don’t remember that one... hmmm... It’s been a while since I took that. I’ll have to go back and look. That’s really weird. Besides..., we’ve already got the answer that God gave us.
[On the other hand, if you were a Mormon, then “God” (according to them) had physical sex with Mary — and then that definitely would be porn... ugh...]
I mean, if I want to bring a video camera somewhere, it’s going to be one to see the first six days of Creation... LOL...
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Please provide specifics about this "avalanche" of evidence.
Yes.
Clearly the “God fearing” conservatives who made the test have a flawed understanding of their own religion. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts they meant the virgin conception (not that there would be anything to video tape there either).
You said — “What is your point, and what is with all the “LOL”s?”
That’s when I’m laughing...
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And then you said — “You cannot have it both ways. Either we ban the IC engine or we buy foreign oil. Not to mention that if we DID get every single car off the road tomorrow we would STILL be importing about 40% of what we do now. Cars are not the only things we use petroleum for.”
About 49% of this country’s energy is by coal. That’s what I read recently on Free Republic and a discussion about coal and this country and what Obama wants to do.
So, for one thing, boost that coal usage up higher. We’ve got coal... At least we “pay ourselves” for it.
Then, secondly, I would dramatically boost nuclear energy production — big plants and the smaller “neighborhood” plants (of about 50,000 homes...). I would make a “Manhattan project” out of bringing those small mini-nuke plants to every community in America. And perhaps there can be more dams builts to produce more electrical energy.
Also, I would boost production of oil in this country and also from Canadian sources, too (we can give those Canadians some of that money that goes to the Arab terrorists... ).
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Then, as an aside, I would crack down on all sorts of financing that the Arabs do with mosques and terror instruction (which they ship over here to the U.S.). I would make illegal any of this Sharia financing that companies are talking about doing. This is just putting more money back into the terrorists hands. Talk about “funding terrorists” — we are doing it all over the place...
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As far as the vehicles we use, I would have us go for both hydrogen-fueled and electrical cars and push hard in that direction. Furthermore, I would do whatever we can do to destabilize OPEC and any country that wants to use OPEC to put a stranglehold on the U.S. and other Western powers. Use the CIA and all the black ops that they have at their disposal to knock that organization out of existence...
Those are a few starters... LOL.. (another laugh for you... :-) ... )
That is arguable at worst.
No doubt there is a snowball effect with suppliers, etc., but the untimate question is this:
As we have seen with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, once you establish a free lunch, it can only get worse.
I'll give you graver economic risks... an endless string of additional "bailouts" as far into the future as the imagination can see.
So I'll ask you what's worse? The anticipated consequences now or when ten times the amount is as stake?
Twenty times?
A hundred times?
All to save the UAW and Democratic votes?
Save the rats, lose a country.
Yeah, that works.
You pretty much nailed it. The bailout is socialism, pure and simple. Many freepers are buying into the “it will save the Big 3” socialist line. Only bankruptcy (ch. 11), a market solution to failed business, has any chance of doing that. The bailout will simply be the death knell of the US auto industry, as well intentioned (by the normal people, i.e. suckers) socialism always is...
You said — “Please provide specifics about this “avalanche” of evidence.”
That’s a big LOL... The first thing that comes to mind when I saw that was,
“I’m sorry — but I can’t help people who don’t know how to read.”
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You must not read if you don’t know about the bailouts, the crashing stock market the metals that are at lower points than at the last Great Depression, the massive layoffs going on across the country, government officials that say we are in a 100-year crisis, a financial disaster of epic proportions, banks failing, banks needing bailouts, the auto industry needing bailouts... and so on.
In fact, you must not be even reading anything here at Free Republic either... It’s just too funny to have someone ask, basically, “Is anything really going on... just business as normal. Nothing to see..., move along..., move along...”
According to you clowns, the economy has been in free fall for the past eight years. Are we supposed to believe you now?
You said — “I’ll give you graver economic risks... an endless string of additional “bailouts” as far into the future as the imagination can see.
So I’ll ask you what’s worse? The anticipated consequences now or when ten times the amount is as stake?”
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Well, I’ve come up with a “rule of thumb” that I’m going to use for the extent of our helping in this country (of our own) and helping people that are our citizens in our country — and that is — to spend as much as we have spent on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As I’ve seen it, in our own “enlightened self-interest” — if we see it “good” to promote freedom and help foreigners in their country (to build up and stabilize their infrastructure and *pay* for all sorts of things for their populations) — then we deserve just *as much consideration* for our own country and paying for things here — as those foreigners get (and have gotten) from us...
That seems like a fair amount to me, for the extent that we should go... (up to and no more than we have spent on foreigners...)
Why am I not surprised?
You said — “According to you clowns, the economy has been in free fall for the past eight years. Are we supposed to believe you now?”
I’ve never said that. I believe it’s come to that point in the last year. That’s what i see. Maybe there are others who have said that for the last 8 years. But, also remember that it’s the Republicans who have been warning about this coming day for a few years, at least.
What I see, definitely, is that this is a massive crisis, of the size of the last Great Depression and it’s going to take — probably — just as much money as we’ve spent on Afghanistan and Iraq for war and for their people — to spend on *our country* and for *our people*.
I’m taking up the mantra that we should spend — at least — as much money for our own country and our own people (to help in this financial crisis) — as we have spent on behalf of foreigners in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan for the purposes of “freedom” over there.
This is “our freedom” over here that we’re talking about and we’re deserving of just as much money (to help *us* as a country) as the Iraqis and the Afghanis got...
You said — “In other words....you want to make hyper-drastic, chicken little, 100% certain predictions of the worst financial breakdown that mankind has ever experienced but you can’t back them up with anything but sarcasm....”
What I’m saying is that *you are beyond anyone’s help* — if you can’t read what’s been going on...
And you’re certainly beyond my help...
Anyone with just *half a mind* knows that we’ve got a financial crisis of epic proportions, which is devolving into one like the last Great Depression. That is..., everyone except you...
How can I “cure” that kind of disability.... LOL...
Who is going to pay $30K for a GM vehicle in January with the probability that, even with a few billions of our dollars, they will not last long enough to honor the warranty? Not I.
Just to add to your excellent post: The counter-argument by certain people here is that nothing is served by letting the Big 3 “die.” First, chapter 11 isn’t death, it is a chance for re-birth. Second, unless the Big 3 get out from under their 2,000+ pages of UAW work rules, restrictions, and insane benefits, THE BIG 3 ARE ALREADY DEAD.
Okay, let’s say we give GM and Chrysler $15 billion. They take that money and do...what exactly? What are they going to do with the money? Suddenly build more desirable cars? No, it takes about five years for a new car to get from the drafting room to the show room. And besides, Chevrolet has the fourth best-selling sedan (the Malibu) and still can’t make a profit.
Negotiate more favorable terms with their union? No, they’ve already said they won’t budge because they own the Democratic Party and won’t be held accountable for their part in this mess.
In all honesty, the automakers’ problems can’t be fixed by money. Maybe they can be fixed by lack of money.
IOW...you can’t.
Not the point. I would bet that our family isn't the only one here directly or indirectly dependent on the car companies.
The point is exactly that.....they will not be using our money to give to the ‘companies’ but to the ‘workers’.
GM in particular, their socialism experiment (i.e. generous Pension and Retiree Health Care ) has failed. Their Liabilities due to actuaries "blowing it" ( in either 84' or 87') thinking many of the retiree's would be dead by now is the main cause they have no capital to retool etc.
The question I pose to you, do you want to give them a life line to the VEBA to off load this Socialism to the Unions in 2010, or do you want the Obamster and the Democratic House and Senate absorbing the retirement and bennies for 1/2 million people who ain't gonna take .30 cents on the dollar, like they would in Chapter 11.
Especially if the product going forward is as good as they are hinting since at least GM and Ford are due for a bunch of new product in the next 12 months which might put wind in their sales, such as the "Volt".
Take your pick.....
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