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1 posted on 11/07/2008 5:50:37 AM PST by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA
That's the way I see it, too. Along with that, how is this not a "taking" (personal property) under the Constitution, also?

Inquiring minds want to know!

2 posted on 11/07/2008 5:52:03 AM PST by traditional1 ("The American presidency is not supposed to be a journey of personal discovery")
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To: Red in Blue PA
Photobucket
3 posted on 11/07/2008 5:52:21 AM PST by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: Red in Blue PA

They are going to start with changing the tax code to prevent any tax benefits. It takes time to stack the judiciary enough to accomplish their longer term goals.


4 posted on 11/07/2008 5:52:27 AM PST by allmost
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To: Red in Blue PA

You’ll find your average Marxist doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the law, and fairness.

And if you expect the courts to be on your side, all the messiah has to do is increase the size of the SCOTUS by a couple seats (like FDR did), and voila ... rubber stamping aplenty.


5 posted on 11/07/2008 5:52:34 AM PST by mgc1122
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To: Red in Blue PA

No more vanities! Ask your lawyer.


6 posted on 11/07/2008 5:52:39 AM PST by Soliton (This 2 shall pass)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I do not see how they do this w/o pissing off a lot of people really bad, besides the legalities. I suppose they could make it optional.


8 posted on 11/07/2008 5:53:22 AM PST by ilgipper
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To: Red in Blue PA

By past court decisions, ex-post-facto only applies to criminal laws.

5th amendment “nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.” might provide some weak protection. Don’t get your hopes up.


10 posted on 11/07/2008 5:56:21 AM PST by devere
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To: Red in Blue PA

No. Ex post facto refers only to criminal law. You cannot be prosecuted for doing something that was not a crime when you did it. It has nothng to do with civil law.


11 posted on 11/07/2008 5:56:52 AM PST by Hugin (GSA! (Goodbye sweet America))
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To: Red in Blue PA
An ex post facto law only applies in a crimnal law context--makng somrthing illegal after the fact. No application to your scenario. However, seizure of 401 accounts would violate the prohibition against taking property without due process of law.

I'm not sure there is a proposal to seize the accounts as opposed to abolishing the tax treatment which makes them attractive.

12 posted on 11/07/2008 5:56:55 AM PST by San Jacinto
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To: Red in Blue PA

No, I cannot believe it would be legal now, but if they stack the judiciary more, they might be able to get away with it from that perspective. However, I HOPE they try this. I can’t wait for them to attempt all their crazy ideas under the mistaken idea they have a Marxist mandate. They will kill their party.


13 posted on 11/07/2008 5:57:33 AM PST by conservative cat ("So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: Red in Blue PA

Its not a taking if they follow Dr. Ghilarducci’s plan and give you a nice valuation for your 401k at August 08 levels as well as a tax credit. They aren’t going to seize the 401k plan per se, what they will do is remove the tax deferment for contributions and try to entice people to transfer their funds to GRA’s with high valuations. Employers will discontinue 401k matches and employees will see their income taxes rise because it will be figured into their ordinary income.

No ex post facto factor here.


15 posted on 11/07/2008 5:57:53 AM PST by prplhze2000
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To: Red in Blue PA

Just look at national elections held over the past 2 cycles, democrat efforts to subvert republican victories by rewriting state election laws, and you will see the concept of “ex post facto” law has been thrown out the door.


16 posted on 11/07/2008 5:58:00 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
It is perfectly legal under Democratic control of the federal government. The Constitution is just a “guideline’ and a list of negative rights you know...
17 posted on 11/07/2008 5:58:05 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Stupidity has an expiration date 11-4-2012)
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To: Red in Blue PA
You cannot have a law which says that people adding to their accounts have money which is theirs

The money in your 401k is not technically yours. It's being held for you in trust - except for any after tax money that you may have put in - that is yours.

The plans being discussed grandfather in current balances so you don't lose any money in which you have a nonforfeitable interest. They will transfer that money from a trust sponsored by your employer to a trust sponsored by the government.

I'm not saying I agree with this from a policy position, but technically they would not be taking money that is yours.

19 posted on 11/07/2008 6:01:43 AM PST by trad_anglican
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To: Red in Blue PA
"Where am I going wrong?"

Comies in all three houses. They will do it.. and Pravda will help them.
27 posted on 11/07/2008 6:08:52 AM PST by Strutt9
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To: Red in Blue PA

You are wrong in assuming marxists care about fine points of the law.


34 posted on 11/07/2008 6:18:17 AM PST by DManA
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To: Red in Blue PA

All they have to do is repeal the law which created 401ks.

they can pass a law repealing the social security act if they want to.


36 posted on 11/07/2008 6:21:30 AM PST by Ceebass
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To: Red in Blue PA

The simplest way for them to get a large chunk of it fast would be to end the Tax exempt status then you would be required to pay income taxes on your entire amount in 1 year since it would magically appear in your income for the year that the tax exempt status ended.


53 posted on 11/07/2008 6:43:38 AM PST by Kadric
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To: Red in Blue PA

Where did you go wrong? when you said, “you cannot..”

If everyone’s gold can be seized your 401k can be seized.


55 posted on 11/07/2008 6:47:00 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You should be happy to Spread the Wealth.

Black and Blue in Oklahoma


56 posted on 11/07/2008 6:47:08 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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