Posted on 11/05/2008 5:25:47 AM PST by VaBthang4
“Libertarian votes cost McCain the election in many states. “
Libertarians are never going to vote for a big spending socialist Republican like McCain. Get a fiscal conservative Republican candidate if you want to attract libertarian voters.
Someone needs to get both of your posts in front of GOP leadership for a much needed wakeup call.
I’m 34, many years your junior and I feel exactly the same way. This is exactly why I run the libertarian ping list, because I became so similarly disaffected with the GOP during the ‘96 Dole campaign, of which this election was basically a repeat. Bob Dole didn’t represent me or my generation in the least, or even that of my parents. He represented a generation that was already reaching the end of it’s prime in mainstream politics at the time, and that was 10 years ago.
Although I have always consider myself more of a ‘work within the GOP’ small ‘L’ libertarian than a LP loyalist, if the GOP can’t change then I might end up drifting even further, as so many others have.
The old blue haired fuddy duddies you speak of need to be shown the door, ASAP, if there is to be any chance of resurrecting the GOP as the party of liberty, personal responsibility, and individuality. It’s moved way off the reservation in the last decade. If you’re still in denial over that, reality has eluded you.
Precisely. But to do that, you have to be willing to put ANYTHING on the table and see if it floats. You can't just wrap another piece of garbage in chocolate and hope America bites. Yet most conservatives are not willing to do that.
For example, while the ideals of real "conservatism" are what made this country great, as someone pointed out to me, the title "conservative" sounds like nothing but "preservation of the status quo". And yet, that isn't what real conservatism is at all -- real conservatism is dynamic, it has life, it's revolutionary. That's appealing, but most conservative Republicans are afraid of that idea.
Sometimes it IS the product. You cannot ever repackage or repromote a sh!t sandwich and sell it. Our eyes, minds and sense of smell will tell us the truth. Oh, I held my nose and took a bite... but only because of Governor Palin.
No it was a socialist Republican who put us in this hole to begin with. The selfish idiots are those who voted for more of the same by voting for McCain. If McCain had won he would have driven the Republican party so deeply into the hole that they would probably never have emerged again taking the country down with them.
If we are doomed to have a socialist government, and we would have under either McCain or Obama, at least we should have the satisfaction of calling it socialist, not pretend conservatism like we have under Bush or would have had under McCain.
The Democrats won because their candidate was a true socialist, not some namby pamby wanna be conservative. Obama was someone the socialists in this country could believe in and so they went out and voted for him.
The Republicans will continue to lose as long as they choose candidates that are namby pamby wanna be socialists who compete with democrats to see who can spend more. The hole you speak of was dug by Republicans. Don't blame libertarians for it.
Do you recall just how many people on this very forum were that self-same way when they looked at the people who were attracted to the pro-life, pro-freedom, pro-constitution message of Ron Paul? They were so off-put at the notion that long-haired hippie-types could consider supporting him, I was afraid many would keel over dead from apoplexy or something!!!
The Libertarian Party is EVIL. They deliberately delivered Texas Statehouse races to DEMOCRATS. They plotted and planned it precisely to hurt the GOP and their plans came to fruition.
As a result we now have pro-higher taxes pro-Govt unions pro-abortion liberal Democrats.
Just look at:
Texas House race HD-52, Bryan Daniel V Dian Maldonado.
It was a 1 pt race and the libertarian got 3%. It was an LP ‘targetted race’ design to tilt the balance.
I have to think these guys are scumbags in the pay of the Texas Democrat party and are using libertarian voters as shills and sheep to be shorn. They are practicing the old ‘divide-and-conquer’ trick on the pro-freedom coalition. Unite or Die folks!!!
The Republicans have long abandoned the formerly-shared principle of smaller government. They have no one to blame for this but themselves.
At least we have enough Republicans to hold a filibuster. At least in Texas Republicans won statewide and have won in many other statewide areas.
But alas.... ALL THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY CANDIDATES DID WAS AID AND ABET THE PARTY OF SOCIALISM. The LP is worse than useless- they are dangerous and destructive to our freedom.
The only good man on our county commissioners court, Gerald Daugherty, friend of taxpayers, lost - by 1% - to a Democrat. The LP candidate ran and got 5%... his stated goal was ONLY to defeat the Republican. Not to help taxpayers, but defeat the Republican... The ONLY WINNERS ARE THE SOCIALISTS!
Obviously I am beside myself at the absoluate and utter evil that has been perpetrated by the Libertarian Party, aiding and abetting enemies of freedom on behalf of a sick agenda that is more about punishing pro-taxpayer Republicans than about advancing liberty.
Lesson to you all, whether you consider yourself libertarian or favorable to it: DON'T EVER VOTE LIBERTARIAN PARTY. IT ONLY DAMAGES THE CAUSE OF LIBERTY.
“Why bash on Libertarians now? “
The Libertarian Party helped deliver multiple races in my area to the DEMOCRATS, that’s why.
That’s the ONLY thing the LP EVER DOES IS HELP DEMOCRATS.
Post of the day!
I’m 34, many years your junior and I feel exactly the same way. This is exactly why I run the libertarian ping list, because I became so similarly disaffected with the GOP during the ‘96 Dole campaign, of which this election was basically a repeat. Bob Dole didn’t represent me or my generation in the least, or even that of my parents. He represented a generation that was already reaching the end of it’s prime in mainstream politics at the time, and that was 10 years ago.
"Although I have always consider myself more of a ‘work within the GOP’ small ‘L’ libertarian than a LP loyalist, if the GOP can’t change then I might end up drifting even further, as so many others have." The old blue haired fuddy duddies you speak of need to be shown the door, ASAP, if there is to be any chance of resurrecting the GOP as the party of liberty, personal responsibility, and individuality. It’s moved way off the reservation in the last decade. If you’re still in denial over that, reality has eluded you.
I applaud you Bama for hanging around this long, because if I were your age, I don't think that I would have!
Like you, I am libertarian-leaning, rather than a complete Libertarian. I want the Republicans to succeed in restoring the values of our Founding Fathers.
However, I disagree here:
"The old blue haired fuddy duddies you speak of need to be shown the door, ASAP, if there is to be any chance of resurrecting the GOP as the party of liberty, personal responsibility, and individuality.
They don't need to "be shown the door", but they do need to back off and retire from running things.
I watched exactly the same thing happen at my church parish -- the older ones just would not let go of power and let the next generation take over. When I was 35 and a corporate executive, they still kept calling me "a kid" (ie "not to be trusted"). Finally, they lost the reins only when enough of them started dying off, but not before they had driven the majority of the next generation away -- even their own kids. It has taken us years to try and regain the huge amount of ground that they lost just because they wouldn't support us and let go.
Now I am watching the same thing happen to the Republican Party and it's a grave mistake! The older generation should not be "shown the door", but they should be shown "a chair" where they can watch and cheer the next generation, fighting for its future!
You and me both on that one...
If there's any good to come out of this, it's that the GOP is now fresh out of cranky old Washington pols like Dole and McCain to be the establishment Republican candidates.
That's a BS answer, for this reason: There were many state-level races in Texas where the GOP candidate was a rock-solid conservative in the Reagan mold. The LP still ran a candidate, the candidate pulled about 3% in races, and the Democrat won. See Texas HD-52 race.
The LP party is a threat to our liberty, by dividing the pro-freedom vote and allowing anti-freedom Democrats to win.
“Libertarians are never going to vote for a big spending socialist Republican like McCain. Get a fiscal conservative Republican candidate if you want to attract libertarian voters.”
Please explain the Bill Sali (ID-1) race then.
Ideally, they should learn to work together instead of playing power games with each other...
If you are talking about third parties in general and not "Libertarians" in the strictest sense, I saw this coming last week:
"The very people who call Ron Paul advocates, “truthers”, “leftist loonies” and the like, will be the same people who after the election — if Obama wins — claim that Ron Paul people were really “Republicans who lost McCain the election” — never once noticing the absolute contradiction between those two claims."
Maybe, but a more supported conclusion would come after we actually gave the populace a CHOICE. It is absolutely astounding to me that the crowd here would hold up JOHN MCCAIN for criminy's sake as an example of "limited government." It just goes to show that for every wild eyed squealing pinko leftist over on DU, we have an equally partisan kool aid drinking party devotee over here.
Principles, then party. It is way past time that Republicans find the testicular fortitude to say "NO, I am NOT giving you my support, I am NOT manning the phones, I am NOT giving my money and I am NOT coming to your rallies until you show me with your track record you are for:
limited government/government spending,
solid traditional values,
common sense strong DEFENCE (as opposed to some kind of idiot brigade worldwide 911 response corps),
and a secure but common sense approach to border security ---
til then DON'T BOTHER. If we wanted socialism we already know where to find that."
It is WAY WAY past time for us to play ATLAS SHRUGGED within the Party and stop listening to the hysterical squealers frantically waving Bill Ayers, Muslim parentage, black radicals and Saul Alinsky around like Jesse Jackson waving a bloody shirt in Memphis. I am DAMN tired of the corrupt leadership ignoring principles and then shrieking hysterically about the "danger" of the "most important election in history."
Just say no. The party will come looking for you. If instead, you let them ignore principles, you will have your *ss handed to you every time, and then you can blame the "Ron Paulites" for doing it to you.
(wolfie, the "you" should be generic, not specific. I have no idea what your personal policies are, and this post should not be interpreted as a personal flame)
I’m with you all the way. But the system is rigged. The Republocrats will make sure we never get close to the points you outline.
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