Posted on 10/30/2008 9:27:11 PM PDT by Dagney Taggert
We need TRAINS in this country!!
I honestly believe if McCain/Palin would have included TRAINS as part of their Campaign - it would have resonated BIG with Americans and perhaps "cinched" the election for them. There are so many advantages/benefits to this mode of transportation........especially at this particular time/juncture we find ourselves in. Think of the time savings, increased productivity, far less pollution, enormous fuel/energy saved, millions of local/national American jobs created, infrastructure investment (new deal), etc. etc.
In think you saw this increase because of the high prices of gasoline. With prices dropping you will see these numbers start to decline.
Hear, hear! We will also be voting no on the SF/LA train, for the reasons you cited. In addition, we have a “SMART” train proposal up here in Sonoma/Marin counties that has been up for a vote already several times and been voted down. I will be voting against that one again, too. They want to run the thing to Larkspur, for heaven’s sake, and then if you want to go into SF you have to take the ferry. That means that to get to the city from Santa Rosa, it will cost you about $20 — each way! And the ferry takes forever! And $20 is the *subsidized* cost! Who is going to commute via train & ferry when it costs you $40 round trip? That’s a no, thank you.
My husband and I spent several months in Europe a few years ago and used the trains there extensively. They were terrific! But until they can make passenger trains here more cost-effective, it’s a no go.
I always hear people talking about how wonderful trains are in Europe and Japan, but the price of the ticket hardly reflects the true cost as they are heavily subsidized. The infrastructure is entirely different, also. I think that many people who say we need more trains in the U.S. fail to realize the vastness and complexity of this country. Freight works at a low cost because you can pack a car from floor to ceiling sending freight to central hubs where it is trucked out to where it has to go. Passenger cars can’t be packed with a hundred tons of passengers, so the cost of operation has to be subsidized. Once the train reaches a secondary destination, there aren’t trunk lines to take the passengers to their final destination (nor would there be any economy in running those trunk lines).
Subsidizing the railroads and light rail lines by taxing people these lines do not serve to is just wrong.
One more reason, if the politicians wanted to put a trunk line or light-rail through your back yard, you’d fight them tooth and nail, probably increasing the cost to build by a factor of ten.
By the way...more people fly by private plan than rail.
More people travel by private planes than travel by rail...ughhhh...I’m sleepy!
Blocked railroad crossings. No time limit per the Feds. Idiotic idea.
Thanks, but no thanks on your 'new deal' offers.
My son and I are train nuts who not only appreciate their historical value, but also their economic value. Trains are certainly more economically efficient for freight, but they really are no different from other forms of mass passenger transportation...they are limited to their designated paths and stopping points. But other rail adjuncts could spread the efficiency with other paths and stopping points. If you think about the concept of mass transportation, we really haven’t been terribly creative in the last 150 years.
Rail systems are very, very, very expensive to build.
I stand corrected.
I want Joe Biden’s subsidized accommodations.
No, it isn't.
and the “option” should be available!
The option IS available. There are no shortages of people and corporations in this country who are willing and able to put together mutli-billion dollar investment ideas... and they skip over passenger rail for some very simple reasons... the primary one being, it is not a good idea since it will not make a profit.
And there are millions who, instead of driving, would “prefer” to: work/relax/eat/sleep/read etc, etc.
Not at the price they would have to pay for each trip. Your little pipe dream will have to remain just that. It's efficient for cargo, and can even turn a modest prift. It's inefficient for passenger traffic (need more transport once you debark, etc), and far from profitable.
No, it isn't.
and the “option” should be available!
The option IS available. There are no shortages of people and corporations in this country who are willing and able to put together mutli-billion dollar investment ideas... and they skip over passenger rail for some very simple reasons... the primary one being, it is not a good idea since it will not make a profit.
And there are millions who, instead of driving, would “prefer” to: work/relax/eat/sleep/read etc, etc.
Not at the price they would have to pay for each trip. Your little pipe dream will have to remain just that. It's efficient for cargo, and can even turn a modest profit. It's inefficient for passenger traffic (need more transport once you debark, etc), and far from profitable.
Look, somebody is trying to take your “Whipping Boy” position!
The European train system is nice. Several years ago my husband and I flew into Frankfurt Am Main in Germany. We walked downstairs in the airport and caught a train into the main train station. We disembarked, walked upstairs to the intercity trains and boarded an ICE train to Munich. It was very handy, especially compared to getting around the San Francisco area before BART was extended to the airport. Two weeks later, at Idstein, outside Frankfurt, we missed the last train into the city and chased it along the autobahn at 140 km per hour until we caught up to it. The conductor let us board without tickets on the promise of paying when we reached the station at Frankfurt.
My husband is a train nut, which means I am a train nut also since he eats, sleeps and dreams trains. A week from tomorrow we will be recuperating from the election at the International Rail Fair in Roseville. Even so, I cannot support California building this high-speed train until it can be shown to be cost-effective, and I doubt that will ever happen. The state gets too caught up in fads or trends and spends money like drunken sailors on shore leave. I can imagine the daily hassle of commuting from Larkspur to SFO. We have an ACE train running through our city to the South Bay but my husband isn’t interested in using it to commute since it hamstrings his mobility over there. I love the romance and history of trains but high-speed in California ain’t where it’s at. Besides, how much scenery can you enjoy when you are whipping along at 200 mph?
Personally I love trains and enjoy riding them in Europe. The Amtrak model isn’t really working here though. I think they make sense for short to medium trips in heavily urbanized areas, but perhaps most of the funding should be left to the states, with perhaps a little help from the Feds. The European model of separating ownership of track from operators and having a regulated open access regime may be worth looking into, but may be too radical for here.
If passenger trains could be cheap and plentiful here in the U.S., I’d love it. Probably not possible though.
Amateurs! I am the Rail Masochist on this forum!
For the record: All forms of privately-owned long-distance transport are subsidized by tax money in the form of infrastructure. From the days of the National Road and the Erie Canal to the modern air traffic control network and the Interstate Highway System, this is the model we have used in the United States. The government has no more business running a passenger rail service than it does running an airline — its proper role is to provide the transport infrastructure needed for passenger rail transport in the form of subsidies for the construction of electrified, dedicated-use regional high-speed passenger rail track and signals; later, these regional rail nets could be linked by federally-funded trunk line connectors. Private railroads would provide the actual passenger service using this infrastructure.
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