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Guns Magazine ^ | June, 2008 | John Sheehan

Posted on 10/13/2008 4:49:43 PM PDT by sig226

From Rifles to Grenades 1914 - 1918

Prior to the outbreak of WWI, for 28 years since the introduction of the French 8x51mmR smallbore, high-velocity smokeless cartridge in 1886, the European powers had been engaged in an arms race to develop the next generation of small arms with which to equip their ever expanding armies. The American Civil War had proved the worth of the rifled barrel as well as the repeater. Stubborn ordnance types had argued for years against the introduction of repeating firearms based on the concern the average soldier would fire off all of his ammunition in the first 20 minutes of battle, after which he would be of little use. Eventually battlefield events overcame the conservative old school opposition to everything new.

The repeating magazine rifle firing the new cartridges at velocities in excess of 2,000 fps proved it’s worth in countless engagements ranging from Spion Kop in Natal, to San Juan Hill in Cuba, to Mukden in Manchuria. The repeating magazine rifle became king of the battlefield. The trained British regulars of the “Old Contemptibles” could fire an estimated 12 to 15 rounds per minute of accurate rifle fire. Their sustained rate of fire during the Battle of Mons and during the constant rear guard actions during the retreat towards Le Cateau was so daunting it lead the German high command to reach the conclusion each British Battalion was equipped with 20 to 30 machineguns, when in fact they were only issued four.

The wide open tactics employed in Germany’s Schliefen plan and Frances counterstroke, Plan 17, called for maneuver and combined arms attacks, with both light cavalry performing in the traditional scouting roll and heavy cavalry, some still wearing archaic steel breastplates and helmets, sporting lances and heavy sabers in addition to their carbines, poised to ride in and exploit the “breakthrough.”

Infantry and field artillery were to operate in support of one another depending on the circumstances, while the cavalry waited in the wings. The “galloping batteries” of light field artillery were still riding hell bent for leather in order to unlimber their guns in open fields in direct sight of the enemy. Firing over open sights, the gunners braved accurate rifle fire unheard of when their tactics were first developed. While the war of maneuver lasted, the rifle was indeed king of the battlefield, with the small number of machineguns employed in the opening months of the war providing the occasional demonstration of horrors to come.

The battle sight setting of the rifles carried by the major combatant nations in 1914 provides some insight into the type of combat the militaries expected to encounter during the next war. The “battle setting” represents the closest possible range at which the rifles sights were set to aim directly at the target. At any range closer than this, the soldier had to hold low. This was the reason sergeants in most armies of the day stood on the firing line repeatedly screaming, “Aim at their knees!”

The prevailing military wisdom at the beginning of the 20th Century was war would be fought in open order at the substantial distance favoring newly introduced high-velocity smokeless powder cartridges. Maneuver, as had been the basic tenet of both strategy and tactics from time immemorial would remain wide open, which explains the continued preeminence of cavalry in every army of the day, in spite of the lessons learned to the contrary in numerous small wars fought towards the close of the 19th Century.

In a war of maneuver, the machinegun was considered of limited advantage being too cumbersome it was believed, to keep up with the rapid advance of the infantry. In many armies of the era, machine guns were still relegated to the artillery rather than the infantry. In addition, the ordnance boards fought the adoption of the machinegun tooth and nail as they had with the introduction of the repeating rifle two decades earlier! How could the already over burdened supply columns ever successfully feed such a wasteful weapon as the machinegun with enough ammunition once the fighting commenced? These same logistics officers believed the average infantryman would empty all of his cartridge pouches within 20 minutes of battle being joined! Small arms fire was to be tightly controlled by the NCOs in every army, another reason why archaic magazine cut-offs survived into the early 20th Century.

The old adage, “The military is always prepared to fight the last war over again” was very much the case in 1914, despite recent evidence the nature of weapons technology had forever changed the face of war. Since the advent of the rifled musket, proponents of defensive warfare from prepared positions, such as Confederate General George Longstreet, had argued well-trained riflemen behind earthworks could not be taken in direct assault by the devil himself!

This was repeatedly proven during the American Civil War prior to the widespread use of single-shot cartridge rifles, let alone repeating rifles. Throw in high-velocity repeating rifles with an effective range of over 1,000 yards when fired at massed targets, and it should have been back to the drawing board for the high command in order to develop new tactics better suited to the effectiveness of the new weaponry.

But the real precursors to WWI were to be found in the siege of Petersburg during the American Civil War and on a much larger scale during the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. In both instances, rapid long-range accurate defensive fire forced the attackers to go to ground. The spade became the soldier’s best friend rather than the rifle. Modern rapid firing field artillery, epitomized by the famous and revolutionary French 75, throwing air-bursting shrapnel or HE shells at the rate of 15 rounds per minute only heightened the need to dig even faster! The transition from the open warfare envisioned by the high command to the importance of digging in the moment a unit halted under fire is most graphically and brilliantly described in Erwin Rommel’s great work, Infantry Attacks. This is a must read for anyone interested in military history, small unit command, leadership, inspired tactics or WWI in general. This excellent treatise on small unit tactics is based on Rommel’s experiences during the Great War as a junior officer in the Elite Wurttemberg Mountain Battalion. It was written after the war and published in 1937. The book chronicles Leutnant (and later Captain) Rommel’s experiences throughout the war, including his participation in the Battle of the Frontiers that preceded the Race to the Sea, which in turn culminated in the ultimate stalemate in the trenches once there were no more flanks to be turned!

After only 17 days in the field, Lt. Rommel made the following observation. “In contrast to this, (the 3rd Battalion which had suffered heavy casualties) the 2nd Battalions pick-and-shovel work on the barren hill paid large dividends. In spite of an artillery bombardment lasting for hours, our casualties were very small.” The handwriting was already on the wall and what was to come should have been apparent to someone other than this lone 23-year-old junior officer!

Rest of article


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; frgc; frgunclub
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To: SIDENET

I wasn’t discussing milsups. I was trying to explain you shouldn’t buy the fancy refurbished and restamped collectible in the really cool looking wooden box.

A hundred dollar Mosin Nagant and a thousand rounds of ammo is an excellent choice.

Enjoy:
http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm


41 posted on 10/13/2008 7:35:30 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: MHGinTN

He does it with a 8X scope. I need my 40X to locate it then I can find it with my 20X. Hitting it is a whole nother story, especially on windy or cloudy days.


42 posted on 10/13/2008 8:00:16 PM PDT by B4Ranch (I'd rather have a VP that can gut a Moose, than a President that wants to gut our Second Amendment!)
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To: 300winmag
I agree. My tactical rifle will reach. Farther than I can shoot. It has a “good” scope, not a $1200 scope.

I was going to get a SOCOM. But they are pricey, some heavy, and expensive to feed. I had a Colt AR, mags and ammo. So I spent my “stimulus” on a DPMS shorty. Nice and light, uses stuff I already have. EOtech sight and it is good for urban areas.

I agree, those long shots are the big leagues. And somewhat rare. For those, my bolt guns. But the ARs are fine out to 300 yds for anti personnel. Regardless, I still want a SOCOM. FRegards.

43 posted on 10/13/2008 8:01:59 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: fr_freak

..practice, practice, practice.
44 posted on 10/13/2008 8:11:53 PM PDT by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
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To: mad_as_he$$
With all due respect Shooter I would prefer something other than a Rem700. That is the only gun I have ever cut up and thrown in the lake. Absolutely hate the things.

Please. The first gun I bought was my 700 30.06. Still only needs a compass mounted on it to shoot groups to 300 yds and more. My 700 .308 tactical shoots better than I can hold it, even with surplus FMJ loads.

Now I don't claim to be a great shot. But I have out shot every braggart I ever came across. And usually with that 30.06. My favorite 165 gr handload shoots pretty tight for a sporter weight barrel.

45 posted on 10/13/2008 8:19:18 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi
Regardless, I still want a SOCOM.

I had to cash in a few Krugerrands to pay for mine, but gold is a luxury, a rifle is a necessity.

The last time I fired a M14-type rifle, it was a real M14, in AIT. By then, everybody went through Basic with the M16. The M14 was a rude awakening for a lot of troops, even though that was their first and last encounter with it.

Since I had already shot lots of bolt action rifles, the M14 was no big deal for me, although I wasn't that impressed with it, either.

Cut the barrel down to 16 inches, put a super-efficient muzzle brake on it and an electronic scope, and it becomes an accurate, fun-to-shoot high-power plinker. Neither my nephew nor my cousin ever shot a centerfire rifle before then, and they were both getting first-round hits, although the Aimpoint helped out there. I didn't tell them until after we were done that they were shooting what is now considered a full-sized battle rifle. No complaints from them, just big smiles.

46 posted on 10/13/2008 8:55:01 PM PDT by 300winmag (Deterrence is an activity, Destruction is a profession)
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To: Shooter 2.5

LOL. Good stuff.


47 posted on 10/13/2008 9:29:02 PM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: sig226
I have a rare book “Germany's Fighting Machine” by Earnest F. Henderson which was published in 1914 and was written by an American in Germany just before the outbreak of WW I.

There is about a paragraph on machine guns, stating that they would have very limited use due to the difficulty of supplying ammunition.

There is no mention of barbed wire.

48 posted on 10/13/2008 10:02:13 PM PDT by Vietnam Vet From New Mexico (Pray For Our Troops)
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To: mad_as_he$$; fr_freak

if you end up looking at stock bolt guns, you gotta check out the savage tactical rifles. i’ve got a 110fp, cost is comparable to a rem 700, and less than an A-bolt, and it shoots every bit as good as either of them, if not better.


49 posted on 10/14/2008 4:43:01 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ( Detroit: we're so bad, even our mayor is a criminal)
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To: MileHi
I completely understand. Almost everybody loves their 700. It is the only gun that has ever had an AD on me. This was well before Rem would admit there was a problem.
50 posted on 10/14/2008 4:52:11 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit)
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To: mad_as_he$$

I have a ‘95 Chilean in the same caliber, very accurate but the metric sight does take some getting use to!


51 posted on 10/14/2008 5:24:09 AM PDT by coolbreeze (giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teen-age boys.)
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To: Shooter 2.5

LOL, I just got an AK so I enjoyed your link!


52 posted on 10/14/2008 3:46:42 PM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: CRBDeuce
Browning (and Westinghouse) took care of that with the M-1917 .30 cal machine gun (actually first patented in 1901, but ignored by military due to lack of interest!).

Mt Browning previously had taken care of the problem of portability for the horse soldiers with his air-cooled Colt-Browning Model of 1895. These eventually served the U.S. Military in the 6mm Lee U.S. Navy cartridge, that of the .30-40 Krag, the origiunal .30 1903 chambering of the Model 1904 Springfield Rifle and the modification of that cartridge into the .30-'06, which served the U.S. military during two world wars. The original Infantry gun design was modified into an aircraft gun by Marlin for WWI, then into a tank gun design that served America's Armoured Cavelry Corps until Browning's Model 1917 and 1919 designs came along.

I once observed a Model '95 *Potato Digger* that had been converted to the 7.62 NATO cartridge by the Army Ordnance Depaertment in the late 1950s, and I've always wanted to get one and a hatfull of M249 SAW links and convert one to 5.56mm/.223 just to bring the old design kicking and screaming into the XXI Century.

It's also worth noting that during the 09 March 1916 Pancho Villa early morning raid on Columbus, New Mexico, F Troop of the U.S. 13th Cavalry Regiment was garrisoned there, along with four M1909 Benet-Mercie machine-rifles and my maternal grandfather. Ten of the soldiers were killed during the attack, four more later dying of wounds, and though the horse troop machinegunners had some problems getting the guns with which they were minimally trained into action, once they began their work the banditos suffered some 80 dead or mortally wounded, mostly from those U.S. machine gun emplacements, expending some 20,000 rounds by 07:30 that morning when Villa's troops finally withdrew after setting fire to the center of the town.


53 posted on 10/17/2008 11:21:10 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: mad_as_he$$
Almost everybody loves their 700. It is the only gun that has ever had an AD on me. This was well before Rem would admit there was a problem.

Extractor breakage, which requires specialist tools and fixtures to repair, has also been a problem of the M700 design, particularly in military usage.

54 posted on 10/17/2008 11:22:49 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Vietnam Vet From New Mexico
There is about a paragraph on machine guns, stating that they would have very limited use due to the difficulty of supplying ammunition.

There is no mention of barbed wire.

Does he mention the German flammenwerfer?


55 posted on 10/17/2008 11:28:36 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Delta 21; fr_freak

..practice, practice, practice.

Clips, clips, clips. Get them now, they ain't available at your local Wal-Mart.


56 posted on 10/17/2008 11:33:35 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: fr_freak
I have a question for the gun club: I’m looking for a good semi-auto rifle of the 7.62/.308 variety. Something I could use to reach out and touch something out to 800m or so. Any recommendations?

Since you're presumably located in California, there are legal restrictions in that state on the magazines for some rifles that might otherwise serve you well.

One that is apparantly still legal there, for now at least, is the M1 Garand, which you can obtain from this source for at little as $495.00"

57 posted on 10/17/2008 11:38:15 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: mad_as_he$$; Billthedrill
A guy named Alvin York can give you details.

So can his pal Paul Huff.

FT. OGLETHORPE, GA - TENNESSEE'S TWO GREAT WAR HEROES, SGT ALVIN YORK (FAR RIGHT) AND S/SGT. PAUL HUFF. S/SGT. HUFF PREFERRED THE THOMPSON SMG AND ALVIN YORK THE SPRINGFIELD RIFLE

58 posted on 10/17/2008 11:41:46 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: Billthedrill
I also note that the American grenadier was armed with some automatic pistol designed by a feller named Browning with the model year of 1911. Wonder whatever happened to that one?

Mr. Browning revised and improved his design, with the assistance of the great Belgian firearms talent Dieudonné Joseph Saive, deleted those features demanded by the American Cavalry Board on his M1910/M1911 design, included a magazine based on the Estonian Model 1918 Talinn 9mm machinepistol design, and came up with this:

And, over the years, it's been refined into this:


59 posted on 10/17/2008 11:48:20 AM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: archy
Actually, on the day of his action that made him famous (08 OCT 1918) , Alvin York used a 1917 Enfield rifle (and a Colt 1911.) I am sure that at some point he probably fired the 1903 Springfield - but he carried the 1917 Enfield into action.

Regards,

Raven6

60 posted on 10/17/2008 11:51:00 AM PDT by Raven6 (The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.)
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