Mystery under famous mosque [ Hagia Sophia basilica, in the former Constantinople ]

Turkish Daily News ^ | Thursday, September 4, 2008 | Vercihan Ziflioglu

[SunkenCiv]

It's hard to tell from the article, but the third church is basically what is seen today, and other than the supporting walls and an atypical six minarets, none of the construction was Moslem, and it certainly wasn't constructed as a mosque. My knee-jerk response to the Sinan architect anecdote is, the stupid bastard probably caused the flooding. Constantinople did have an artificial cistern over which part of the ancient city was constructed, but the Hagia Sophia isn't over that.

The original dome was too flat, and fell not many years after construction, during an earthquake. The replacement was rounder, but also fell in a quake. Its replacement survives in part today, but parts of that third dome fell in two different medieval quakes.

The interior engineering with its semidomes etc was a brilliant leap from then-existing Roman Empire forms, and it remained the largest dome in the world for centuries, I think until modern times, and for a while may have been the world's tallest structure as well. The Pantheon in Rome actually has a wider span as a single dome, and was not surpassed until Brunelesci (sp?) built his famous dome in Florence during the Renaissance. The Pantheon also is the oldest surviving true dome; the only older domes which come to mind offhand are the corbelled domes built by the Mycenaeans, the so-called Treasury of Atreus being the best-known example.

[SunkenCiv]

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[spyone]

Wonderful picture. Hope I see it in the flesh one day.

[ApplegateRanch]

However, Akkaya seemed to argue against exploring the site. “It is a dark place. There is nothing to be seen or to be shown to the public. If there had been anything to see I, myself, would have had a search. There is nothing more than pure mud down there.”

"There is nothing to see; else, I would have looked," is one of the most breathtakingly ignorant statements I have ever heard emerge from a scientist's mouth.

Maybe that 'dark place' will be illuminated when the Light Of The World returns...except then, we won't care.

[wildbill]

I wonder if the explanation of the deep ditches filled with sand radiating out from the Basilican might have been for drainage rather than protection from sea earthquakes.

Makes sense if you have a building built and find it’s on a site which has serious underground water problems.

[SunkenCiv]

That would make sense if there were any sign (such as a contemporary document, the Turks were literate, or rather had a literate class) showing awareness of the water. It doesn’t sound like the water is much of a problem for the basilica if it antedates the Moslem takeover. There’s always the possibility that the water was deliberately introduced in order to alleviate the strain of earthquakes — trouble is, well, think of the Leaning Tower of Pisa. :’)

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, I read it that way as well.

[colorado tanker]

It's still one of the most stunning buildings in the world. Hope to get there and see it in person.

[SunkenCiv]

Wholeheartedly agree! It really needs a modern restoration and conservation effort, but that won’t happen in Moslem Turkey.

[colorado tanker]

Wholeheartedly agree! It really needs a modern restoration and conservation effort, but that won’t happen in Moslem Turkey

Strange as it sounds I think it's more likely to happen with the present government than with the past "secular" administrations. These guys have really proved to be modernizers and very much want in the EU, which encourages historic preservation.

[wildbill]

Yeah, but you don’t need a copy of an architects drawing or building permit to suspect when you’ve found a septic tank.

Let’s use Occam’s Razor here.

The design alone—ditches leading away filled with sand— makes a statement that these were probably drains.

Besides, whoever heard of ditches with sand being a cure for earthquakes? I doubt there’s any documentation for that idea either.

[naturalized]

I will be there, God willing, with Ray Vanderlaan and some brothers and sisters in Christ in October this year. Whenever I see islamic graffiti and buildings on a sacred place of God’s people (as I did with RVL on the Temple Mount Summer 2006), I cannot help but think of it as the abomination that causes desolation standing where it does not belong. I will have to bite my tongue. /vanity

[colorado tanker]

I have always been deeply saddened by the loss of so many treasures of Christian art, especially mosaics, by the desecration of Hagia Sophia.

[Lynne]

“Wholeheartedly agree! It really needs a modern restoration and conservation effort, but that won’t happen in Moslem Turkey.”

I was there a few years ago. It’s an incredible site. It really did need restoration, but I thought I heard not too long ago that they had started to restore it.

[naturalized]

For all his faults, Simcha Jacobovici does stumble over some good stuff from time to time. I love the interview with the waqf of the temple mount where he is clearly lying when he claims at one point to be a respecter of all religions. Not to hijack this thread, but I wish people understood that the battle over Jerusalem is a battle over the Temple Mount and the truth of the Temple’s existence.

[L.M.H.]

It is being restored. They’ve been working on restoration of the dome for several years actually, which is why you see a huge amount of scaffolding going up to the dome when you walk in. (Was there just this past May)

[L.M.H.]

I have always been deeply saddened by the loss of so many treasures of Christian art, especially mosaics, by the desecration of Hagia Sophia.

Hagia Sofia is an especially sad case, because most of the destruction was done by fellow Christians during the Fourth Crusade (sack of Constantinople).

[a_Turk]

Sinan the great architect a stupid bastard? I’m afraid he was neither. I used to think you were alright.

[a_Turk]

>> ...but that won’t happen in Moslem Turkey.

Wow. You are bigoted too!

[SunkenCiv]

No, Islam is bigotry.