Posted on 09/02/2008 3:13:16 AM PDT by Pistolshot
Free Republic Gun Club – Tuesday – Pocket Pistols!!!!!!
Morning. Today’s FRGC article is about those misunderstood, mouse guns. The smallish pocket 22’s, 25’s, 32’s, 380’s. I will limit the discussion around these calibers and to the revolver/autos available, simply because once you get outside this range you get into larger, holster-necessary type of firearms. I am also not dismissing the derringer type of weapons, but that is another category entirely.
The mouse guns have a good/bad history. Generally, of the smaller calibers, they have the drawback of effectiveness or lack thereof. I carry a pocket pistol in a variety of calibers, from 22 to the .380, it really depends on dress for the day. As with all CCW weapons available, make sure you are proficient with the firearm you carry. Practice with pocket guns is even more necessary, IMHO, simply because the sights are rudimentary at best, and totally useless at worst. Remember, you are carrying a less effective cartridge and any confrontation will be an iffy thing. But, any gun is better than a hand, knife or fist.
I will give a nod to the PM Kahrs. The micro size in 9mm, 40 S&W, and even the PM45 can be considered in the ‘Pocket’ category.
The PM9/40 is by far the smallest of the pocket pistols in a major caliber. Literally the same size as many 380’s it carries the power for self defense at the cost of number of rounds. Something to consider.
The PM45 is slightly larger and is limited to a 5+1 capacity. Having looked one over (finally) I would choose it over the 9 for certain occasions.
So let’s get into the mouse guns, the ones you can put in a front pocket like a set of keys and not even know it’s there. Since I mentioned the Kahr, let’s look at their newest entry into the small pistol market. The Kahr P380. Even smaller than the PM series, the P380 is the size of the Kel-Tec 380/Ruger LCP. The polymer frame makes it light and pocketable. The DA only action makes it extremely safe and reliable. One thing about the Kahrs, appealing to me, is the way the slide is mated to the frame. There is a steel block towards the rear of the slide and the front rides on 2 steel rods in the dust cover, offering a larger area of control and lockup for the barrel. One to consider for pocket carry.
Moving on, let’s look at the KelTec32/380. These are very popular with police as a backup, individual professionals, motorcyclists, and for women. The polymer frame and size make it ideal to carry in a purse or pocket. For police, most of them carry it in the pouch in the front of the vest they wear. There have been reports of reliability problems with the .380 version, but I have nothing to substantiate the claims. The ones we have sold have been reliable and not really brought in for trade.
The Ruger LCP is almost a clone of the KelTec, and some of us are of the opinion that there may be a copyright or patent issue the two are so similar in construction.
North American Arms makes a huge variety of stainless steel pistols and revolvers for pocket carry. They are some of my favorites and are extremely popular with just about everyone. I carry a couple of different ones. First, the mini-revolvers. 5-shot in calibers from 22 Short to 22 Magnum, the NAA minis are pocket revolvers in the extreme. Grips are tiny and hardly manageable if firing, BUT , with these grips installed, they are as manageable as any other firearm.
The pocket from NAA I carry on occasion is the Guardian. Manufactured in 25, 32, 32NAA, and 380, the guardian is a reliable, stainless pocket gun. The 32 NAA cartridge is a 380 case necked down to 32. The verdict is still out on the effectiveness of this one.
Berreta makes a number of pocket autos and has some that have a distinct advantage, the pop-up barrel.
A few weeks ago, a young lady came in with her daughter and a revolver to trade. She could not pull the trigger on the older Charter Arms and was looking to trade for something her arthritis could handle. With the tip-up barrel, and in .32, the Tomcat was the answer for her. She was able to handle the trigger and the loading and it will still be a reliable and effective defensive handgun for her and her daughter. 
Lastly, for me, is the LWS Seecamp. Possibly the Cadillac of pocket pistols. Exquisitely made, the Seecamp in stainless has one of the best DA trigger pulls in the pocket arena. It is also priced that way. But you get the highest quality in a performance pistol you can get.
How could I end this introduction without mentioning the AMT backup? In 380 caliber, the Backup was one of the first true pocket pistols that exhibited the features of the mouse guns. Small in size and caliber, this little gem is still a popular choice in pocket pistols. Now out of production, the Backup is still available in used, and almost new condition from gun dealers. We get them in trade on occasion and they might last a week. If you are looking for a good reliable 380 pistol, at a decent price, the Backup could be for you.
Well, there you have it from me to start the thread for the day. Pocket pistols are rapidly becoming a favorite for carry or backup. As I said in the beginning, pocket pistols should be considered if the weather you live in might require something smaller to carry, or you have special requirements that necessitate a smaller type of firearm. Potency, as always, depends on shot placement, and with the mouse-guns, it’s far more important. Something to remember.
JOIN THE FR GUN CLUB PING LIST HERE!!!
George Kellgren and his lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank.
Funny, my PPS came with a 35-round capacity magazine, and in 7.62x25 mm caliber at that....
While the .32/380 was more of a coat pocket pistol, it was and is a reliable,concealable shooter that has impeccable lines
One of my favorites
In 1931 my paternal grandfather was involved in a running gunbattle with two armed robbers, one an excaped convict, trying to overtake his Packard and relieve him of the company payroll he was transporting. Unfortunately for the auto-bandits, he was accompanied by both his Colt Model 1908 .25 *vest pocket* auto pistol, and the then-young woman who would become my grandmother, who had accompanied him so that she could get in some out-of-town shopping.
He first became aware of their intent when they pulled up alongside him and one waved a longish-barrelled revolver at Granddad, whereupon he floored it and left them behind. Unfortunately the road wasn't suitable for sustained high speed flight, and they pulled up alongside again and the passenger fired two shots into the door of Grandad's Packard. Whereupon he emptied the six shots in his little Colt's magazine into the passenger side window and front windshield, figuring the .25 bullets wouldn't get through their door's sheet metal any better than theirs had through his. The peppering surprised them sufficiently that they dropped back again, good news since Grandda had only the magazine in the gun.
Always helpful, his lady companion retrieved his box of 50 rounds of .25 ammo from the car's glove compartment and refilled the 6-round magazine for him. And when they caught up again, he let fly with all six again, this time shattering their windshield ald letting the November breeze hit the driver in the face. And again grandmother refilled the magazine, and again he waited for them to give it another try. They didn't, and eventually he came to a section of road straight and level enough that he could outdistance them.
Once he got to town, he dropped his affianced partner off at her home and left to drop off the payroll and let the local chief of police in on the detaiuls of his adventure. It turned out there was an alert for the excaped convict, and he was asked to join in the hunt for the pair, since he could probably identify the unknown driver of the car with the little quarter-inch holes in the side and front glass. And join the posse he did...after a quick trip home to grab a sandwich, his lever-action .44 Winchester *assault rifle* and a short-barrelled 12-gauge double-barrelled shotgun. The two bad guys were caught at an auto repair shop trying to get their broken windshield replaced, which they claimed *had been broken by frozen branches*. They were probably lucky it wasn't the car of cops with Granddad that happened to be the one that found them.
A day or so after the shooting and arrest of the criminals, one of the cops who'd been with Granddad during the hunt stopped by the house and asked Granddad for the .25 *for evidence.* In return, the cop, who latrer became our county sheriff, gave him the 5-inch barrelled S&W Military and Police revolver that the criminal shooter had fired at him, telling Granddad that if he was going to carry a gun for serious work, he should carry a serious gun.
In 1968 my dad died, and the sheriff was one of his pallbearers. After the services, the sheriff took me aside and asked me what kind of handgun I favored, and I told him that I most generally carried a 9mm Browning Hi-Power, which seemed to satisfy him. And wrapped in a very old and yellowed handkerchief, he handed me Granddad's little .25 pistol, which he told me he really figured belonged back with the family.
It's not likely to be used against robbers or burglars again. But if it has to it can, and though I only have the one magazine that came with it, the box of ammunition I got for it in 1968 still has 44 additional rounds left in it.
Awesome story. That Colt is priceless, and the memory that goes with it.
Fantastic story.
I have a 1903 .32 that has been in the family since 1915.
Had to have it refinished-hard to keep the rust off it-had it done in a bead blast blue. Still carry it as an off duty gun on occassion.
Fantastic story.
My Granddad passed away two years before I was born, while at work supervising the installation of a then-new air conditioning system, refrigeration engineering being his trade. He had been delivering the payroll for a chain of southern Illinois and Indiana icehouses at the time of the story, around $10,000, a pretty good piece of change in those days.
I'd dearly have loved to have heard the story from him, but instead got it from my Grandmother, the cop who passed the pistol back into the family, and a couple of other family friends who had known him in those days.
You come from good stock. Ballsy grandfather, and even more remarkably, a ballsy grandmother. Carry their memories, pass them to your children, it’s what makes family pride.
Ironically, all three guns I tossed overboard before my 2 hour Mexican visit were Rugers. A .22 Mk 1, a SS mini-14, and a SS .357. Now I own no rugers, and don’t plan to.
Are they taking Ruger to court over patent violations?
See the post 4th from the bottom here, posted Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:07 pm.
I've not heard of legal action following [and would note that George Kellgren's name was misspelled] but it's worth noting.
You oughta hear some of the stories from my mom's side of the family. Her daddy was a participant and survivor of the Pancho Villa raid at Columbus NM in March of 1916, was a Navy enlisted man during WWI, received a post-WWI veteran's Homestead Act land grant in Wyoming from President *Silent Cal* Coolidge in the mid 1920s, then returned to New Jersey as a senior Western Electrius/ Bell Labs technician and field supervisor.
When the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor, he went to the local Navy Recruiter, where he was told that despite his WWI service he was too old. Undaunted, he applied to the Army, who found out what his technical qualifications were and commissioned him as a Signal Corps lieutenant, figuring he'd be safe enough stringing field phone wires in some military backwater.
It didn't quite work out that way: he ended up in the Aleutians, which the Japanese had attacked and invaded in 1942 and spent most of that year and the next working at tossing them out and making sure they didn't come back.
Then, after the war, he went back to work for Bell Labs, and among other things, wound up as the NJ State Commander of the VFW.
Like my other Granddad, he was not a real good feller to trifle with....and neither is my kid, nor the sweet girl he picked to go through his life with, and who so far has given him a son and twin daughters.
You reckon they'll be telling stories about their crabby ol' Granddad one of these days?
Best story of the day. This should be on CNN Armed Citizen (as if). I have my Granddad’s half-empty box of .380 Kleen-Bore and his 1905 Diamond 12-gauge.
Granddad reportedly didn't think it was all that remarkable, but there is one other little facet that goes with the story. I also eventually wound up with the .38 S&W revolver that had been used to shoot at Granddad, the bluing of which was quite worn around the grips, the checkering on which was quite worn. When I got the .25 Colt, I asked the Sheriff it was in that shape when granddad had received it, thinking that maybe it had been stolen from someone who had used it considerably.
Nope, I was told, it had been nearly brand new, in pristine shape. The wear came from my own Grandfather's practice and carry of it, including a period during WWII when he was a defense plant guard force supervisor keeping nighttime watch on a major local railroad bridge and a couple of lovcal defence industries with it. I'd always figured that was no great big deal, but later found out it was his own way of doing what he could after one of his cousins was killed at Pearl Harbor aboard the USS Oklahoma, and another was in a combat-loss U.S. submarine in the Pacific. One of those defenc industries was involved in supplying something remarkably important to the conduct of the war, and there was one other little detail that affected me personally:
Initially the bridge guards had to supply their own equipment, and Granddad not only had his .44 WCF Winchester '73, but let the guard force supervisor borrow the .38, as well as supplying a shotgun for another guard. Eventually, they got WWI M1917 Enfield army rifles and pre-WWI Krags, and finally, four M50 Reising submachineguns.
Though no Japs or Krauts snuck up river to raid the local defence industries or Army Air Corps training base, one mid-November evening Granddad did fire one shot from one his Reising gun at a very suspicious-acting whitetail deer that had come to the river to drink and nibble on some of the ears of corn that had been appearing around the guard shack over the preceeding week or two. The shot was fatal, and Grandfather removed the body to his home whereupon my Grandmother performed a sort-of autopsy and other careful kitchen surgery. Thanksgiving dinner of 1944 was graced with a dandy venison dinner, with the guests of honor being my Dad, home on leave while serving as a USAAF courier, and his then-fiancée, who became my mother. And gave Granddad a round from the .45 M1911A1 he carried to replace the one with which he *had bought dinner.* It was at that dinner or shortly afterward, I was told, that my future Dad proposed to my future Mom.
Two years later, the war was over, and Granddad had a heart attack while working and was gone. Two years after that, I was born and was named for him, the third in our family to carry that name.
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