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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

So how does this work? If the DVD doesn’t contain sufficient information for a 1080p picture to begin with, how can you give it that information?


3 posted on 08/18/2008 11:21:03 AM PDT by kc8ukw
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To: kc8ukw
Don't know...more detail via Yahoo and the Ap:

Forget HD DVD: Toshiba focuses on plain old DVD

The word is upscaling

Not sure what all is done via electronics....

4 posted on 08/18/2008 11:25:40 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: kc8ukw
See this:

What Is Meant By An HD-compatible DVD player?

************************EXCERPT************************

The Upscaling Process

Upscaling is a process that mathematically matches the pixel count of the output of the DVD signal to the physical pixel count on an HDTV, which is typically 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i).

720p represents 1,280 pixels displayed across the screen horizontally and 720 pixels down the screen vertically. This arrangement yields 720 horizontal lines on the screen, which are, in turn, displayed progressively, or each line displayed following another.

1080i represents 1,920 pixels displayed across a screen horizontally and 1,080 pixels down a screen vertically. This arrangement yields 1,080 horizontal lines, which are, in turn, displayed alternately. In other words, all the odd lines are displayed, followed by all the even lines.

The Practical Effect Of DVD Upscaling

Visually, there is very little difference to the eye of the average consumer between 720p and 1080i. However, 720p can deliver a slightly smoother-looking image, due to the fact that lines and pixels are displayed in a consecutive pattern, rather than in an alternate pattern.

The upscaling process does a good job of matching the upscaled pixel output of a DVD player to the native pixel display resolution of an HDTV capable television, resulting in better detail and color consistency.

However, upscaling, as it is currently implemented, cannot convert standard DVD images into true high-definition images. In fact, although upscaling works well with fixed pixel displays, such as Plasma and LCD televisions, results are not always consistent on CRT-based high definition televisions.

5 posted on 08/18/2008 11:29:23 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: kc8ukw

Good point.


6 posted on 08/18/2008 11:29:28 AM PDT by dhs12345
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To: kc8ukw

It doesn’t give the DVD any new information, but if it works like the upscaling chip in Toshiba’s HD-A30 HD-DVD player, these will make DVDs look spectacular on a big HDTV.


7 posted on 08/18/2008 11:31:29 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: kc8ukw

Interpolation algorithms.

IE the format has 1/2 as many lines as the display, you can interpolate the pixes on the 2 lines there, and fill the line in between with a pixel color matching the 2 if they are the same, or between the 2 if they are different etc.

Incredibly dumbed down, but this stuff has been available for years, if you bought a large projection TV long before HD formats existed, you could get a line doubler to increase crispness that worked on the same principles.

I’m sure they are using far more complex algorithms than I’ve described, but the general principle is the same.


14 posted on 08/18/2008 11:42:53 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: kc8ukw
So how does this work? If the DVD doesn’t contain sufficient information for a 1080p picture to begin with, how can you give it that information?

It ain't perfect, and it ain't real HD, but a proper upscaler can do a very credible job in upconverting SD DVDs to HD.

How does it work? Images are created using tiny areas called Pixels (Picture Elements.) If one pixel is white, and the next pixel to the right is black, you can make an educated guess that if there were a pixel between the two, it would be gray.

Add in pixels above and below the target pixel, as well as the pixels near the target that occured earlier and later in time, and you can get a pretty good estimation of what that pixel shold have been had the source been of a higher reslolution.

The more computational power the upconverter has, the more sophisticated the pixel estimation can be.

17 posted on 08/18/2008 11:52:07 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: kc8ukw

Different dvd players use various electronic approaches to display their images, some of them more advanced then others. In short there is often a lot more information on a dvd than many players can display...such “extenders help release that info. Such extenders also use line or pixel doublers that use algorythms to “replace” the missing data “between the spaces” as it were to increase picture clarity as well as color. Mpeg 2 video is a compression algorythm use to compress higher data rate video onto dvd and some compression rates are greater than others leading to variations of dvd image quality(such as more pixelation, ect). The image out from a typical dvd player is often either 480i or 480p in progressive scan mode(think rgb plugs or hdmi for 480p).

When you play a letter boxed 480p progressive scan movie from a dvd, modern hd monitors handle the image in a variety of ways. Some display the actual 480p image in the center of the monitor leaving the edges around the image dark. If the dvd is set to 16:9...some tvs will automatically stretch the image to fill the tv properly, some will leave the image as is until one uses a “fill
feature which strectch the letter boxed feature into it normal proportions and fill the screen.(a dvd in 16:9 mode will display a “squashed” image on some sets until the stretch feature is used which puts the dvd image back into its normal proportioned image).

This letter box streching can stretch the “pixels out “causing some wash out on LCD HD sets. The use of a line or pixel doubler can massively improve the image of such dvd’s, especially on high quality recorded dvd’s such as director’s cuts, collectors editions ect. Converting such outputs to 1080p mode can make it quite impossible to tell hd from 1080p converted images without a direct match up...the images are generally better than from just 480p alone at the very least.

There is work going on, not just in pixel doubling or image extrapolation algorythms, but in compression replace ment, the idea being that compression algorythms take out information that wouldn’t be critical to the naked eye when viewed, though when compared with hd would definitely be seen. The idea is to “re-expand” the compressed image to replace the resolution and color losses by applying a reversed algorythm on the out dvd data. It could be done only on images where the compression was done in a predictable fashion so that the replacement data could be predictably worked out in its re-expansion.

I’m not sure what route Toshiba has taken but hopefully they’ll produce an add on gadget or affordable dvd players with this technology. Hopefully, the technology works as advertised.


21 posted on 08/18/2008 12:05:55 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: kc8ukw
So how does this work?

It doesn't. It's hogwash. Just like oversharpening an image in an image editor does not produce new detail, this one wont either.

25 posted on 08/18/2008 12:29:24 PM PDT by libh8er
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