Elisabeth Fritzl Begins Testimony [and updated news on her children]

Shadmia's World ^ | July 14, 2008 | shadmia

[BillyBoy]

»Elisabeth Fritzl Begins Testimony

Elisabeth Fritzl , 42, who was imprisoned for 24 years by her father, Josef Fritzl, and bore him 7 children; has been given medical clearance to begin testifying about her ordeal. She has already begun to answer questions and will continue to do so in the coming week. Elisabeth has said that she never wants to see her father ever again… not even at trial. So in order to accommodate her wishes, all of her testimony is being videotaped so that she will not be forced to confront him in court.

The trial of Josef Fritzl is scheduled to begin later this year in front of one of Austria’s most senior female judges, Andrea Humer , 48, who is considered to be an expert in sex crimes. However, under Austrian law, Elisabeth is being questioned by the investigative judge Christoph Bauer , and not the trial judge Andrea Humer. Neither the contents of the questioning nor the upcoming trial will be open to the public.

The actual questioning of Elisabeth is taking place in two separate rooms of the same building via a video link up. In one room will be Elisabeth and her lawyer Eva Plaz, along with judge Christoph Bauer. In the other room will be state prosecutor Christiane Burkheiser and Josef Fritzl’s lawyer Rudolf Mayer. Defense lawyer Rudolf Mayer is allowed to ask questions, but his client, Josef Fritzl, who is also entitled to attend, has waived his right to be there. Rudolf Mayer, said: “My client will definitely not attend the questioning.” Elisabeth’s two oldest children, who spent their entire lives in the cellar, Kerstin, 19, and Stefan, 18, will also be questioned by the court as soon as doctors give their approval. Josef Fritzl’s wife Rosemarie, 68, is also expected to be questioned.

In what may be a surprising development, it turns out that Austrian law, does not allow for cumulative convictions. This means that even if Josef Fritzl is convicted of multiple crimes he will only effectively serve one punishment, for the offense that carries the longest prison sentence.

Fritzl is facing potential charges of manslaughter for the newborn that died, as well as rape, coercion, deprivation of freedom and incest. But prosecutors told The Times that since the baby died in 1997, the manslaughter charges would be “extremely difficult” to prove. Even the rape charges, which carry a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison, could be impossible to probe because of a lack of forensic evidence.

What this means is that the only charge that is certain to be proved in court is deprivation of freedom, a crime that can only be punished with ten years in prison under Austrian law. Josef Fritzl could be a free man after only 10 years in prison.

However, here’s the irony in the situation… Josef Fritzl, who incarcerated his own daughter in a windowless dungeon for 24 years, has admitted that he can’t stand being locked up after only two months in prison. In spite of his fear of being beaten up or killed by other inmates, who routinely target child sex offenders, Josef has demanded his right to 30 minutes exercise outside every day. At night fellow inmates bang on the walls and shout: “Come on out Satan, we want to play.”

Fritzl, who remains held in pretrial detention in St. Poelten, about 50 miles west of Vienna, now has half-hour walks, protected from other inmates by a close guard of prison officers. Fritzl even told prison guards he enjoyed having the sun on his face during his walks.

“Mr Fritzl is accommodated in a cell for two and recently he has made use of his right to go outside for half an hour per day,” the Telegraph quoted prison spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Erich Huber-Guensthofer, as saying.

A source is quoted as saying: “He usually sits there watching television all day, especially news programs about him. He’s terrified that someone will attack him or try to kill him.”

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In encouraging news about the Fritzl family; Lisa, 15, one of Elisabeth’s daughters, was sneaked out of the compound where the family has been staying to attend a summer camp. It is reported that the girl enjoyed four carefree days of outdoor fun under an assumed name with 4,000 other young campers. Armin Blutsch, who commands Amstetten’s fire brigade, and Hans-Heinz Lenze, a local official, said camp organizers took it upon themselves to include her after she said it was her “ardent desire.”

Other family members also have ventured, always in disguise, from the Amstetten-Mauer psychiatric clinic where they have been recovering to make day trips, including swimming outings. The clinic however remains under police guard to shut out the paparazzi who have laid siege to the building in an effort to photograph Elisabeth and her children.

“Fortunately, everything is going very well,” said Christoph Herbst, a lawyer representing the victims. He said they were spending some time each day trying to answer the hundreds of letters sent by well-wishers from around the world.

For the complete story of Elisabeth Fritzl and her ordeal at the hands of her father click the following link for a 5-part video presentation of The Josef Fritzl Story

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Possibly related stories:

Cops quiz Fritzl's Elisabeth
Austria: Dungeon woman questioned
Austrian Incest Victim Questioned
Fritzl 'dodge' over baby killing

[Sherman Logan]

I think the mods made a mistake. You put "Australia" (the land down under) in parenthesis on my thread title when the case is taking place in AUSTRIA.

I don't think the US Constitution applies in Oz either.

Although they'd probably be better off if it did. Especially the 2nd Amendment.

[nw_arizona_granny]

Thank you for the update.

[BillyBoy]

>> No need to get snippy. You originally posted this in the news forum. I’m certain that I wasn’t the only one who assumed this was U.S. news. <<

You not only assumed it was U.S. news without reading the article, but you've also expressed doubt that Josef Fritzl is gulity through this thread. For those of us who have been following this story, it's a pretty open and shut case with a 99.999999% chance he's gulity of the charges leveled against him. I don't think anyone here who read the details of the Fritzl case would express doubt that he locked his daughter and grandchildren in the basement celler for 20+ years and repeated raped her. He's even admitted it, though she says he began to molest her when she was a child and he claimed it wasn't until she was 18.

My suggestion is that you read the articles relating to this case, see how it's unfolded over the last few monthes, and then come back to this thread and tell us whether you're concerned about Fritzl not being able to confront live witnesses. I think the fact these kids had never seen sunlight in their lives and that Fritzl had an 8 ton locked door installed in his basement that only he knew the combo to is pretty damning.

[grellis]

and he or his council can't challenge or question her.

No, it doesn't mean that. It means that cross examination will be slower than it would be if the victim were forced to appear in court with the man who did his damnedest to ruin her life. I think it's a shame this isn't done more frequently in our country.

[Jean S]

He’s very lucky that he doesn’t live in the U.S.

[Jean S]

Correction, the victim is very lucky that he doesn’t live in the U.S.

Our rights are the best in the world, I don’t care if there is a 99.9% chance that he is guilty. The 6th amendment was written for a reason and many of you are glad that it doesn’t apply in other countries.

Scary.

[Jean S]

No, it doesn't mean that. It means that cross examination will be slower than it would be if the victim were forced to appear in court with the man who did his damnedest to ruin her life. I think it's a shame this isn't done more frequently in our country.

Repeal the 6th amendment to the Constitution and you'll have your wish.

[BillyBoy]

Ping.
Fritzl family photo, c. 2001 or 2002.
[ don't know why the media feels the need to "censor" the faces of the Fritzl children who lived normal lives, since photos of what the "upstairs children" (that were born in the celler but allowed to have normal childhoods) look like today have been previously published.]

Thought you guys who followed this story months ago might want to hear about the latest updates on the case. Jean S, who hasn't followed this case, is actually arguing we need to be concerned about "the rights" of the criminal. Wonder if you guys might want to weigh it on that.

As someone else noted, this guy has been caught with multiple rapes, child abuse, false imprisonment and incest over a period of 20 years and the most they can give him under Austrian law is 15 years. And of course Josef gets allowed three square meals a day, walks outside to enjoy the sunlight, and a nice spacious cell with a window -- none of which he EVER allowed HIS victims. And let's not forget Elisabeth only agreed to talk to police on the condition that she would NEVER have to see her father again.

Yet Jean S thinks Austrian law is too harsh and should give Josef more "rights" to "face his accusers" -- the blood relatives he traumatized and tortured for two decades.

Unbelievable.

[Pontiac]

Jean S, who hasn't followed this case, is actually arguing we need to be concerned about "the rights" of the criminal.

As someone else noted, this guy has been caught with multiple rapes, child abuse, false imprisonment and incest over a period of 20 years and the most they can give him under Austrian law is 15 years. .

Thanks for the ping.

I agree and disagree with Jean S.

I agree that Fritzl should have the right to face his accuser. It is a basic human right. Yes Fritzl denied his daughter every human right that I can think of short of her life. But rights are rights because the government can not deny them to an individual no matter the crimes he may have committed. Remember it is the hated enemies of freedom that always say it is the seriousness of the charges that demand that a Republican resign before any investigation is even begun.

I would hope that with counseling Elisabeth will be able to face her father and tell the court of his evil.

If not perhaps the children’s testimony will suffice to convict him and if the children will not testify there is the testimony of the police which should be enough.

It does seem odd that fifteen years is all they can send him to prison for considering the number of charges that they could have on him.

[PGalt]

Thanks for the update. Josef Fritzl deserves the same dungeon, should endure the same rapes, and then be thrown into the furnace of hell.

[AnAmericanMother]

Video-hookup testimony in child rape cases is very common even in this country. The defense lawyer has the right to ask questions in real time.

In the case of a minor victim, the trial court has the discretion to balance the potential harm to the child against the right of confrontation.

This is an unusual case because the victim is now an adult. However, the crimes were committed when she was a child. In addition, I could make a strong argument that she is an incapacitated adult because of the extended mistreatment she suffered at this man's hands, and therefore is entitled to the same consideration as a minor child.

Most importantly, the article says that Fritzl has waived his right to be present. A defendant can waive all sorts of rights.

So even if Austria had a 6th amendment, he's waived it.

It's a shame that the law doesn't recognize consecutive sentences for multiple offenses. But hopefully he'll serve every day of whatever they manage to stick him with. The prosecutors and the court know that this case is notorious.

[Paved Paradise]

Jean S is either a complete idiot or has not an empathetic bone in her body. When these people feel compassion for monsters, do they even for one millisecond try to imagine the horrors of the victims????

This is why those who do not believe in God must live paltry lives. While justice may not happen on earth, we have the comfort in knowing that God’s justice which is completely perfect, will deal with this kind of pure evil.

[Paved Paradise]

What constitution are you talking about lady?

[nmh]

This is hard to believe ... but I know it’s true.

[Kimmers]

Thank you for the update....I wish they would give this monster an hour in the general population.

This just sickens me, prayers for the victims....

[ktscarlett66]

This is the first you’ve heard of this case??? The very first time the story broke, months ago, I knew it was Austria.

[Jean S]

What constitution are you talking about lady?

I'm no lady and no, I have never heard about this case until this thread. Crimes in Austria do not interest me, U.S. politics interest me. My problem is this, people are happy about this decision which, if it was in the U.S., it would violate the 6th amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Several posters suggested that they agree with the decision and I suggested that they might want to repeal the 6th amendment.

[CatherinePPP]

Who is Jean S?

I think that in normal circumstances an accused criminal should have the right to face his accuser, but I don’t think that should apply when the accuser is an abused child. And although this poor lady is an adult now, she has been imprisoned since her childhood, and her kids are still children. I think they should be left to heal in peace. There is enough evidence of this man’s guilt, without having to disturb this family further.

[AnAmericanMother]

As I just explained up thread, even if this did occur in the U.S., it would not violate the Confrontation Clause.

The defendant waived his right to be present.

End of story.

[BillyBoy]

A freeper who's been arguing in this thread since post #2 that we need to be concerned about Josef Fritz's "rights"