Posted on 05/03/2008 10:24:03 AM PDT by LS
Giamatti playing Washington or Jefferson would be acting ...
... the guy who plays angry little men, playing our angriest and littlest president may be typecasting ...
Nevertheless, a great man, and a great actor. I look forward to seeing the whole series.
OH man - I was telling someone about the teeth. It did curtail snacking during the show!
It is very good to know that your granddaughter is so well versed on our Founding Fathers.
July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration. Jefferson's last words were "is it the Fourth?" Adams' last were "Jefferson still lives." He was mistaken.
The letters between Jefferson and Adams after both had retired from public life are a warm portrait of a lifelong friendship, though one often battered by politics; they are also an invaluable document of what the Founders thought of their work, even in areas where they disagreed amongst themselves.
I haven't seen the miniseries yet, but in McCullogh's book, one interesting lesson is the stark differences between the two Founders. Both were nominally farmers, but while Adams worked the land when he was in Massachusetts, Jefferson never got his hands dirty. Adams was the classic frugal Yankee, while Jefferson lived and died in debt. Adams was terse and focused, right down to business, where Jefferson (like Franklin and Washington) was more of a charmer, perfectly at home schmoozing large groups of people.
But the letters between John and Abigail are the real treasure. Abigail was her husband's full partner, and in their letters they discussed the philosophy of the new nation, and the events of the revolution.
Abigail even used code to send John intelligence on events in Massachusetts while he was in Philadelphia. Men didn't consider a woman any threat, so they wouldn't lower their voices or change the subject when she walked by.
Yet amid all of that, the letters between John and Abigail Adams are, for my money, the greatest body of correspondence ever between two soul mates. You can keep Robert and Elizabeth Browning.
Lol. The De . . clar-——aaaaaaaa-—tion.”
TJ built 200 stupid coastal gunboats that were all sunk in the War of 1812. Adams built four frigates that did incredible damage to the British fleet, and made them think twice about attacking American ships.
BTW, the original usage of the term "Federalist," which the miniseries failed to capture, was a group that favored SEPARATION of powers between states and the federal government. The Jeffersonians hijacked it to mean anti-central government.
Jefferson contributed significantly too by developing a system in which land was released from government control to individual ownership---just the opposite of his "successors," the modern-day Dems. It was also TJ who suggested the Spanish, not English, money as a basis for our own . . . in 10s!
I agreee that TJ is vastly overrated as a statesman.
As a writer, his language will perhaps never be topped.
I’m not sure I understand your last paragraph. The Federalists like Adams were of a stronger central government. The anti-Federalists like Jefferson were opposed to what in hindsight were necessary central government powers. TJ initially opposed the Constitution for this reason.
Check out our extended discussion of this in "A Patriot's History of the United States."
Exactly who were these guys?
The closest I'm aware of is Hamilton, who I believe made a single not perhaps serious but indisputably maladroit reference to the need for a monarchy. I believe he was actually referring to the need for a strong single-persopn executive, not for a King.
As far as I know, his suggestion met with universal and immediate rejection.
So who were the monarchists/nationalists?
My understanding of the only two factions were the pro-Constitution Federalists (Hamilton, Washington, Adams) and the anti-Constitution anti-Federalists. The latter wanted greater state power and limited national authority.
Ditto. We don't have HBO, but DirecTV ran a free HBO weekend a few weeks back and I caught the first three episodes.
I will buy the series as soon as it hits the shelves.
Again, check out our chapter in “Patriot’s History.” Mike Allen wrote most of this, and my brief explanation here won’t do it justice. He details precisely how the term “Federalist” was originally the term for separation of powers.
Thank you, but I do not have access to your book.
Perhaps you can accomodate me by listing just a few of the leaders of this previously unknown powerful “third force” which planned to abolish states and install a strong centralized government. My understanding of the period, which could certainly be in error, is that this faction didn’t exist except in the rhetoric of the opponents of the Constitution.
I have to admit that, at least in the early episodes, Jefferson came across as, well, gay.
And Franklin came across as an ass much of the time.
Still a great series though.
About what I expected from HBO
To be fair, I’m not sure that the portrayal of Franklin was that inaccurate. The scenes in France, where he was somewhat of a dandy, were probably spot on and, in my opinion, did not portray him in a positive light. From what I have read he was very well liked, and sincerely enjoyed, the French court of Louis XVI, and I think we all know what became of most of them just a few years later due to their elitist attitudes. Additionally, Abagail Adams at one point says that she doubts Mrs. Franklin would approve of a certain relationship. It is fairly widely accepted that Franklin was somewhat of a lady’s man in France.
As for Jefferson, I think it was more the actor than the script. He was just a bit effeminate. As he aged he seemed far less effeminate. HBO did not dwell on things like the Sally Hemmings Affair, which they could have, and instead chose to only discuss it essentially in passing as the Adams family sits at dinner discussing what was appearing in the papers of the day. Had they been pushing a serious agenda they surely would have focused more on that.
Overall it was an excellent portrayal of an often overlooked man. It did not stray far from historical fact, and also did not shy away from Adams’ flaws.
On vacation. More later. Amazon has the book, so everyone “has access.”
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