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Should we fear the wrong decision (2nd Amendment vanity)
4-29-08 | RWB Patriot

Posted on 04/29/2008 7:49:41 PM PDT by RWB Patriot

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I do hope I've done a good job laying this out. After finding out about that the Supreme Court is currently deliberating the Second Amendment, I began doing research on whether or not a ruling against the "individual rights" view of the Second Amendment would be as bad as I feared it would be. My research led me to believe that while a "state's rights" view of the Amendment wouldn't be all good, it might not be all bad.

Hopefully, intelligent heads will prevail in the hearing and the Supreme Court will rule in our favor. Time will tell.

1 posted on 04/29/2008 7:49:41 PM PDT by RWB Patriot
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To: RWB Patriot

Speaking of time, when is the Court supposed to release their opinion?


2 posted on 04/29/2008 7:53:03 PM PDT by 2111USMC
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To: RWB Patriot

Makes sense, that’s why it’s wrong. If the SC so rules, expect the firearms to be rounded up.


3 posted on 04/29/2008 8:03:11 PM PDT by chesley (Where's the omelet? -- Orwell)
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To: 2111USMC

According to Wikipedia, the end of June.


4 posted on 04/29/2008 8:03:35 PM PDT by RWB Patriot
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To: chesley

I never said they wouldn’t be if the wrong decision is made. I just feel it won’t be as easy as the government and anti-gun crowd believes it will be.


5 posted on 04/29/2008 8:06:19 PM PDT by RWB Patriot
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To: RWB Patriot

How does that effect those of us over 45 years of age?


6 posted on 04/29/2008 8:10:01 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only Hillary or Obama can!)
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To: RWB Patriot

Why this case was used as a test, why any test case was promoted, I’ll never know.

To possibly help some DC citizens, all our rights were put on trial.

Bad move.

Never go to court when you can lose more than you can win.


7 posted on 04/29/2008 8:24:53 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If you already own a gun, then the Amendments protecting private property come into play. And considering that people nowadays are more healthy and active even into their fifties and older than they were in the early 1900s, a case can be made to increase the age limit in the militia act.


8 posted on 04/29/2008 8:26:27 PM PDT by RWB Patriot
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To: RWB Patriot

Should we fear? Nope. We’ve got the guns.


9 posted on 04/29/2008 8:37:28 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: chesley

When they try that there will be a sh*t storm created that this country has not seen since the civil war.


10 posted on 04/29/2008 8:43:17 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: RWB Patriot; All
The honest interpretation of the 14th A. has already decided the outcome of DC v. Heller in Heller's favor. More specifically, John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of the 14th A., had included the 2nd A. when reading the first eight amendments as examples of constitutional statutes containing privileges and immunities that the 14th A. applied to the states. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd and 14th Amendments protect the personal right to keep and bear arms from both the federal and state governments as much as any other constitutional privilege and immunity protects other personal rights.

See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.

http://tinyurl.com/y3ne4n
Note that the page referenced above is dated for more than two years after the ratification of the 14th Amendment. So Bingham was evidently assuring his colleagues about the scope and purpose of the ratified 14th Amendment.

The bottom line is that the only thing that DC v. Heller is testing is how corrupt the Supreme Court is. Given that the Court decides the case in DC's favor, then it's time, actually long overdue, to peacefully heed Lincoln's advice about government leaders who aren't respecting the Constitution that they have sworn to defend.

"We the People are the rightful master of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." --Abraham Lincoln, Political debates between Lincoln and Douglas, 1858.

11 posted on 04/29/2008 9:17:16 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: RWB Patriot
It seems pretty apparent from the questioning that a majority is inclined to rule the 2nd is an individual right. The big question is going to be to what degree it can be regulated. After all, no rights under the constitution are completely absolute. Governments can require permits for assemblies, property can be zoned for certain uses, free speech doesn't allow you to incite a riot, etc. So will it require a “strict scrutiny” protection (as in free speech), or a lower standard of scrutiny to overturn laws regulating firearms?
12 posted on 04/29/2008 9:22:28 PM PDT by Hugin (Mecca delenda est!)
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To: RWB Patriot
If you already own a gun, then the Amendments protecting private property come into play.

That is not correct! The Federal Government believes it owns the guns. Congress actually let the cat out of the bag in the early 1990s when US Senator Metzenbaum of Ohio introduced an assault weapons ban. While that particular assault weapons ban did not go anywhere the premise of the ban was that if you owned a so called assault weapon you would need to complete a new 4473 to keep it. Failure to do so would result in a severe 5 year prison term, no parole.

You could not sell it to anyone, but at some point you could transfer it to your son or daughter if they too then filled out a 4473. It could only be transfered once, however, and only to a son or daughter, and only with a new 4473.

If you no longer wanted it or or died or, your kid did not want it or died then the weapons REVERTED back to the Federal Government. It could only be transferred once before it reverted back to the Federal Governmetn and the possesor was required to turn it in.

Since 1968 the Fed Gov. has forced manufacturers and gun dealers to complete 4473 forms when a gun is transfered or sold. The 4473 acts as a title which denotes an ownership interest on the part of the issuer of the title. How do you think local and state governments get away with confiscating your car for some unrelated crime without due process? It is because the car is titled.

In the proposed Mezenbaum bill the Federal Government would be empowered to force everyone to re-title their so called assault weapons with a 4473 under the threat of felony prosecution and five years prison for each offense so they could establish the ownership interest on every the assault weapon whether it or not it had been acquired from a dealer or private person.

13 posted on 04/29/2008 10:02:49 PM PDT by suijuris
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To: RWB Patriot
As for those of us who do not yet own firearms

I would never have thought that there are FReepers that don't own guns.............

14 posted on 04/30/2008 2:29:38 AM PDT by cowboyway (Don't squat with your spurs on.)
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To: RWB Patriot
If you already own a gun, then the Amendments protecting private property come into play.

I'm not concerned with confiscation. In my opinion, any man that will let a government take his guns away from him doesn't deserve them to begin with.

15 posted on 04/30/2008 2:31:49 AM PDT by cowboyway (Don't squat with your spurs on.)
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To: RWB Patriot

If the SCOTUS goes against the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, common sense and the English language, no other tenant of law will matter.

It will be time.

The worst result will be a strong majority declaring the Second an individual right subject to common sense regulation.

That will keep the sheeple down as the NRA declares victory but will set us permanently on the road to confiscation and destruction of the Constitution and Republic, with slavery the result.


16 posted on 04/30/2008 4:39:04 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The republic is over kids!)
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To: RWB Patriot

The SCOTUS ruling in Kelo vs New London removed property rights from the debate.


17 posted on 04/30/2008 4:40:21 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The republic is over kids!)
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To: Amendment10

“The bottom line is that the only thing that DC v. Heller is testing is how corrupt the Supreme Court is.”

Now that’s the truth.


18 posted on 04/30/2008 4:41:49 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The republic is over kids!)
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To: Hugin

No other amendment says, “Shall not be infringed.”


19 posted on 04/30/2008 4:42:35 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (The republic is over kids!)
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To: RWB Patriot

I would hope we never find out. If we do, I hope you are right, and I am wrong. But I fear I am right. We;;, we’ll see. Let’s root for option 1, above :)


20 posted on 04/30/2008 5:49:52 AM PDT by chesley (Where's the omelet? -- Orwell)
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