Just say no to college 'pedigree'

Perhaps being a plumber will make a lot more money—and take less crap—than being a college grad.

is this the same dave ramsey that recommended

bear stearns to his audience?

Being a plummer is not high on her list of career aspirations at the moment.

I can't see where transferring to a "pedigree" school would pay off just for the education unless there was a chance to build relationships with the other students.

Aren't we over-hyping this "connection" thing ?

Any college you go to gives you the opportunity to network with other people. I highly doubt that going to Harvard automatically gives you the chance to be close friends with a Kennedy or a Bill Gates.

I looked at the names of numerous CEO's at large and small companies in the USA and there is not "rule" that says that most of them are Ivy League grads. In fact, a significant number of them are graduates of state universities and small colleges.

I think the question to ask is this -- how much is this "connection" worth ? Is it worth $50,000 a year for 4 years ? Or can you get something similar for much less than that ?

is this the same dave ramsey that recommended bear stearns to his audience?

Did he ? Could you kindly show us the source or link for this ?

I looked at the names of numerous CEO's at large and small companies in the USA and there is not "rule" that says that most of them are Ivy League grads.

It's far less true for jobs like CEO, since they frequently work their way up from entry-level management positions that hire from a wide range of schools. But it's definitely true in industries like finance and consulting, where it's rare to even break in in the first place from non-elite schools. And those are best far the best-paying entry-level jobs most college grads can get.

I've listened to Dave Ramsey's CDs, read two of his books, and watched dozens of his shows on the Fox Business Channel. Never saw him recommend specific stocks or brokerage houses. His advice is to get with a financial advisor who will teach you about investments, not sell them to you. One of his cardinal rules is to never invest in anything you don't fully understand (and can explain to someone else). It would be totally out of character for him to endorse a brokerage house.

Regarding mutual funds, he says to research their histories and make sure they've got a prolonged record of success. He invests in one mutual fund that has never had a down year in over seventy years. That's a track record.

Back in the day I wanted to attend Princeton so badly I cried for days (literally) when my parents crunched the numbers and saw that sending me there would be perhaps a twenty year budget-buster. So I went to a state school in Pennsy (Temple) and received a terrific education from excellent teachers at an incredibly affordable cost. No regrets and no student loans. Win-win.

But it's definitely true in industries like finance and consulting, where it's rare to even break in in the first place from non-elite schools. And those are best far the best-paying entry-level jobs most college grads can get.

Hmmm... let's see if this is true...Let's look at the undergrad degrees of the head of some prominent finance companies in the USA...

Frank Zarb --- Former president of the NASDAQ Stock Market Inc, and later Chairman of AIG. Graduate of Hofstra University ( is that "elite" ?)

Gary Crittenden : Chief financial officer of Citigroup. BS degree in management from Brigham Young University ( State University ).

Richard Severin Fuld, Jr., currently the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., One of The USA largest brokerage and investment banks. Fuld, received his B.S. from the University of Colorado in 1969 ( A State University).

G. Kennedy "Ken" Thompson, chairman, president, and CEO of Wachovia Corporation. He holds a B.A. in American Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (a state school)

Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, Graduated with a degree in Chemical Engineering at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst ( A State University ).

Samuel A. DiPiazza, Jr., CEO of PricewaterhouseCoopers, One of the world's largest consulting companies. He received dual degrees in accounting and economics from the University of Alabama ( A State University ).

Kenneth D. Lewis, the current Chairman, CEO, and President of Bank of America, one of the largest banks in the United States. He is a graduate of Georgia State University, where he earned a bachelor of arts degree in finance.

Gary D. Cohn is President and COO of Goldman Sachs. Graduated with a major in finance at American University.

I could go on and on and on.

While there is an argument to show that most Ivy League grads do well, it is not necessarily true that you have to spend a fortune in your undergrad to get the Ivy League "connections" to climb the corporate ladder.

A better strategy is this -- if you don't have the money, don't bankrupt yourself in order to go to an Ivy League school if they don't give you sufficient aid.... go to a good state school and do well. Then, find employment in a good company while enrolling for your graduate studies ( either at an elite Ivy School or a good non-Ivy ). You can use your salary to pay for the grad school tuition or maybe your company has educational benefits for its employees. At any rate, it isn't a good idea to be in debt by over a hundred thousand dollars before you earn your first salary when just as good an alternative exists.

He invests in one mutual fund that has never had a down year in over seventy years. That's a track record.

Could you be so kind as to share the name of the mutual fund with us ? Hope it's still open to new investors.

Unfortunately, he's never given the name of that fund, or any other one he's in. He says you can expect 12%(net 8% after inflation) from a good mix of mutual funds, long term. In the absence of any other information, he recommends a mix of large cap, agressive growth, international and mid-cap funds with roughly 25% in each.

That's a bit too risky for people who are really nervous about their money. Someone who is checking their balance every day and panics when the market has a setback shouldn't be in anything that volatile. Good finances but too much emotional stress.

Oh, of course there are exceptions (though note that many, such as Fuld and Crittenden, have MBAs from top B-schools), and there are probably very few jobs in the country where you absolutely must have a degree from a top university (president of a top university might be one of them). Given how many more students graduate from average/state schools, there will always be a fair number in any field, but in the fields I named Ivy league grads still dominate, and if you really want a career in one of those fields you'd almost certainly be better off going to a top school. But with what those fields pay, the debt wouldn't be so unbearable.

Personally, I went to a smaller undergrad and graduated with very little debt. It did limit my career options considerably, but didn't hurt my law school applications, so I decided to go with a top law school depsite the debt.

Oh, of course there are exceptions (though note that many, such as Fuld and Crittenden, have MBAs from top B-schools)

My argument is that EVEN in Finance and Management Consulting, these examples I cited are NOT EXCEPTIONS. The examples of successful people who graduated from non-Ivies are so numerous that making a case for going to huge debt in order to land a great job in these fields after graduation does not pass the cost/benefit analysis test.

As for having MBAs in top B-schools, my advise is to take it AFTER you find a job and pay for the MBA tuition either with your salary or through a company sponsored tuition aid ( this is a benefit which most Wall Street companies have ).

The point of the article is not that you shouldn't go to a name school. Its larger point is this --- IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY, DO NOT KILL YOURSELF GETTING INTO HUMONGOUS DEBT TO GO TO A "NAME" SCHOOL WHEN THERE ARE GOOD STATE SCHOOLS THAT WILL GET YOU THE SAME DEGREE AND ACCEPTANCE.