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To: AndrewC
Dishonest? You're the one that posted a partial reference.

No, I posted the entire exchange with Shapiro. Your "context" is completely unrelated to anything Shapiro was involved in or aware of at the time he made his statement. the "context" is a lie and a fraud.

What question is it that he addresses?

Good question. Your source doesn't give any actual context for the "heads or tails" remark. I take it as a general observation on the universe of ID research and writing.

Shapiro's response to the question of where the programming comes from originally is very telling. It's clearly an opportunity for Shapiro to make some philosophical or theological pronouncement, but he refrains. Perhaps because he doesn't have an answer and is simply being honest.

868 posted on 04/08/2008 11:21:48 AM PDT by js1138
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To: js1138
No, I posted the entire exchange with Shapiro.

No you didn't. What you posted was what Meyer stated that a friend of his stated that Shapiro stated. Now obviously, Shapiro did not just blurt out, "You know, I can’t make heads or tails of what you guys are talking about with intelligent design." and then complete his entire conversation with "You know, I rarely think about that." That is why the context is important. Since the concept that is being broached in Meyer's total quote is "So you can’t extrapolate from a system that is running downhill informationally to explain the origin of large amounts of new functional information. That requires something new. I had an article recently in a London newspaper, and a professor wrote in who works on computational simulations of evolutionary theory. He says, “I don’t see why they both can’t be true.” He says, “What I see is the programmer puts the original information in the system and then evolution takes over from there."

When Shapiro expresses his confusion as to what ID addresses, Paul Nelson, Meyer's friend, sets up the basis for answering Shapiro's confusion. That answer is "But that’s what we think about and I think the two can go together. There are real evolutionary phenomenon that can be studied, but the origination of the programming is something that I think requires design. Which two? 1. Shapiro's work 2. The origin of the programming.

Shapiro was being honest.

869 posted on 04/08/2008 11:57:04 AM PDT by AndrewC
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