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To: mrjesse
Thus I'm asking how you would describe your relationship with origins -- how much is belief and how much is knowledge?

Origins? The current scientific hypotheses are plausible, and are based on (limited) evidence. They are arrived at using the scientific method. None yet reaches the level of a theory.

The current religious ideas concerning origins (and there are several thousand internally contradictory ideas worldwide) are based on revelation and scripture and pure speculation -- in other words, nothing.

407 posted on 04/02/2008 8:50:47 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Origins? The current scientific hypotheses are plausible, and are based on (limited) evidence. They are arrived at using the scientific method. None yet reaches the level of a theory.

Could you mention some of the best of these limited evidences, and briefly explain the observation, hypotheses, and prediction?

The current religious ideas concerning origins (and there are several thousand internally contradictory ideas worldwide) are based on revelation and scripture and pure speculation -- in other words, nothing.

I'm not too sure what "the current religious ideas concerning origins" means to you, but if we're talking about the general idea that God created everything as described in the Bible, then I'm very familiar with that.

Actually, when I look at the world around me (And I tend to do that a lot, having been fascinated by everything around me since youth) I see a lot of things make sense when compared against the Biblical account.

For example, the Bible says that each kind reproduce after their own kind. Growing up on the farm, this is exactly what I saw. And I've found no evidence to disprove it. The Bible also says of course that God created the universe. And I haven't figured any way else it could have come to be, at least without another strong faith. The Bible also gives a good reason why there is only one species that talks. There is a great gap between the intelligence of mankind and the nearest ancestor. The Bible also gives a reason why there is this theme of an even number of hands and arms on mamals, you know, the two eyes, 1 nose, etc: God made it that way. I see no reason why evolution would not have ended up producing animals with 5 legs and 3 eyes and the like. And the Bible also gives a reason for the similarity in life forms -- he knew a good way to do it, and used the same principle on lots of different species. As a computer programmer, I do the same thing -- I take an old program I wrote, and use it as a starting base then make it do a new task, reusing a lot of the same old code. If God were a master designer, I see no reason he'd do it differently. Now of course I cannot prove that any any of these Biblical informations are true, so it is a faith for me, but can you see how an honest person that wasn't predisposed to believe evolution could also find the Biblical account to be plausible and to be supported by limited evidence?

As long as one is honest and doesn't claim as fact anything that is really only belief, and as long as it is possible that God created the world, I don't see why the topic could not be honestly and rightly scientifically explored.

I find that there are many ways that the universe appears to have been created intelligently. I don't see why I can't use that as an observation, then hypothesize that it was created by an intelligent creator, and then try to find the best answer explaining what I find.

Sorry for rambling on so. I truly am trying to learn the truth. I see many claims to mountains of evidence but as an amateur scientist (as in physical demonstratable sciences) and engineer I'm accustomed to getting to the bottom of things, but this topic has been ever so elusive. Thanks very much for your help!

-Jesse

435 posted on 04/03/2008 12:58:58 AM PDT by mrjesse (Could it be true? Imagine, being forgiven, and having a cause to live for!)
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