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To: Sherman Logan
There was no way this was a viable nation.

The British could have said that about the 13 colonies. That is just a BS statement.

Davis ordered the shooting to start as a way of forcing these states to pick a side.

Lincoln ordered the reinforcement of Ft. Sumter to instigate action from the South in order to justify his invasion.

The secession of South Carolina having dissolved her connection with the government of the United States, the question of the possession of the forts in the harbor and of the military post at the arsenal became at once a question of vital interest to the State. Able commissioners, Robert W. Barnwell, James H. Adams and James L. Orr, were elected and sent by the convention of the State to treat with the government at Washington for an amicable settlement of this important question, and other questions growing out of the new relation which South Carolina bore to the Union. Pending the action of the commissioners in Washington, an unfortunate move was made by Maj. Robert Anderson, of the United States army, who commanded the only body of troops stationed in the harbor, which ultimately compelled the return of the commissioners and led to the most serious complications. An understanding had been established between the authorities in Washington and the members of Congress from South Carolina, that the forts would not be attacked, or seized as an act of war, until proper negotiations for their cession to the State had been made and had failed; provided that they were not reinforced, and their military status should remain as it was at the time of this understanding, viz., on December 9, 1860.

47 posted on 03/29/2008 10:20:12 AM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: cowboyway
That is just a BS statement.

That 7 agrcultural states would be heavily outnumbered and outgunned in any confrontation with 27 increasingly industrialized states is a BS statement? LOL

The British could have said that about the 13 colonies.

The new USA didn't share an undefended and indeed indefensible border of well over 1000 miles with a hostile and much more powerful nation.

It is of course true that Lincoln and Davis were playing chicken over the 8 unseceded slave states. Davis blinked by choosing to fire the first shot. Lincoln won that round.

The Buchanan administration, heavily dominated by southerners and doughfaces, apparently made some sort of understanding with SC in December, although exactly what this understanding was is disputed.

When Lincoln, the legally elected president, took office, he was not bound by any such informal agreement. He had the perfect right to set his own policy.

He nevertheless communicated with SC to let them know that he would attempt to introduce only food and other supplies into the fort, not reinforce it for military purposes.

49 posted on 03/29/2008 10:31:15 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: cowboyway
reinforced, and their military status should remain as it was at the time of this understanding, viz., on December 9, 1860.

In most instances resupply against a treaty stipulation is a cause for war.
On the twenty-ninth of March, Lincoln had ordered that three ships — the Pocahontas, the Pawnee, and the Harriet Lane — together with three hundred men and provisions be made ready to sail for the Charleston harbor. Lincoln to Cameron, in Official Records: Armies, Series I, Volume I, page 226; Enclosure No. 1, op. cit., page 227.
These orders were all marked private. On the first of April, he sent a message to Commandant Andrew H. Foote at Navy Yard in Brooklyn, New York to “fit out the Powhatan to go to sea at the earliest possible moment under sealed orders.”Lincoln to Andrew H. Foote, in op. cit., page 229
These instructions were confirmed with another telegram which contained these words: “You will fit out the Powhatan without delay. Lieutenant Porter will relieve Captain Mercer in command of her. She is bound on secret service; and you will under no circumstances communicate to the Navy Department the fact that she is fitting out.” In all, consisted of eight warships, carrying twenty-six guns and one thousand, four hundred men.
Fort Sumter Relief Force...On Its Way Four Warships, 25 guns, 300 (additional) seamen, 200 artillerist U.S.S. Powhatan 2415 Tons Armament*- 3 (Three 12-pounders) Carrying 300 additional seamen to assist in the resupply/reinforcement effort. (Never arrived.)Smug note; By a quirk of fate Lincoln had previously ordered the Powhatan to the aid of Ft. Pickens and it had already set sail to Florida. U.S.S. Pawnee 1289 Tons Armament*- 10 (Eight 9-inch guns, Two 12-pounders) U.S.S. Pocahontas 694 Tons Armament*- 6 (Four 32-pounders, One 10-inch rifle, One 20-pounder Parrott) U.S.S. Harriet Lane (revenue cutter) 600 Tons Armament*- 2 (Two 32-pounders) Baltic (transport) Armament- None Carrying 200 troops (artillerist) for the re-inforcement of Fort Sumter. Gunboats Thomas Freeborn 269 Tons Armament*- 2 (Two 32-pounders) (Never arrived.) Uncle Ben Captured by pro-secessionists off the coast of North Carolina. Yankee 328 Tons Armament*- 2 (Two 32-pounders) *earliest report in proximity to the time of Fort Sumter

The day this flotilla set sail the CSA received copies of these orders, and this set in motion the reduction of Sumter.

62 posted on 03/29/2008 9:44:51 PM PDT by smug (smug for President; Your only real hope)
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To: cowboyway
...and their military status should remain as it was at the time of this understanding, viz., on December 9, 1860.

So by your own admission the rebel attempts to starve the fort into surrender violated this alleged agreement.

76 posted on 03/30/2008 10:45:42 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: cowboyway
So by defending the rights of 19th century moonbats in South Carolina to evict Federal troops and take over Federal installations you must also be defending the 'rights' of 21st century moonbats in San Francisco to shut down Federal recruting stations.

Is that your position?

227 posted on 04/03/2008 10:25:23 AM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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