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To: Sherman Logan; All
first, the hecatomb of my family====> in 1864 a group of union "filth in blue" came onto our family's small farm in NC,had a 4-day drunken orgy of rape, looting (they must have gotten little, as our family HAD little to steal, other than household furnishings,a few cattle/hogs/poultry, hay/silage, etc.),burning,torturing & finally murdering everyone on the farm. there was NO real reason to do this EXCEPT:

1. the women/children/elderly men of our family as AIs made "convenient targets" as they were UNARMED (readers of this post might think on that= being UNARMED is: choosing to make oneself a TARGET for criminals!!!),

2.many whites HATED Indians (in fact, MANY whites desired nothing less than EXTREMINATION of EVERY Indian.) &

3. the WAR CRIMINALS obviously KNEW that NOTHING would be done to them for their crimes. (sadly, i must tell you that what was done to our family was FAR from unique. if you were defense-LESS/poor/Non-white/of a"minority religion"/a recent immigrant/etc you were a "target of opportunity" for every one of Sherman's bummers. otoh, southern "plantation aristocrats" frequently were PROTECTED by the union army, as all too many were collaborators with the enemy.)

as for "how hard" southern officers would have been on a dixie soldier who "took a comely wench" = MUCH harder, if only because (if she was a slave),the slave was the property of another person (usually a RICH/politically-connected one!) OR (if she was a "freeperson of colour") that the officer did not want a family of ANGRY Blacks in "his backyard". (fwiw, you saying essentially that "you guys were no better than ours" is a WEAK & SILLY argument that makes you LOOK dumb,that's like telling your mother that, "Billy does it so i should be able to do it too."= your mom wouldn't have "bought that argument"- neither will i,).

may i gently suggest that you look at a map of the Caribbean to see the islands i'm talking about (as well as several of the Central/South American "land-side" nations)? Cuba was NOT the only one. Hispaniola, Martinique & many other smaller islands had slavery (whether lawful or not. in some places, slaves were called "servants", "laborers" and/or "bondsmen", but they WERE slaves.)

as for "rants", i note that EVERY time any of us southerners start talking about the commission of WAR CRIMES, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY & HYPOCRASY of the DAMNyankees, that the unionists here call it "ranting".====> laughing AT that SILLY attempt to "cover up" what was done in the prostrated south by the invaders. (for example, EVERY TIME i "bring up" the assaults against, torture of, starving, denial of food/clothing/medical care & outright MASS-murders of/to the CSA POWs in the hands of the DAMNyankees, at least ONE DY says: it was NO worse than Andersonville. the TRUTH is that the union operated DEATH CAMPS, which were DESIGNED to cause harm/death to CSA prisoners, while Andersonville (at it's worst & the conditions were TERRIBLE. even members of the guard force starved to death at Camp Sumter!!!) was a case of NOTHING TO GIVE the US POWs- even the USPOWIC admits that NO WAR CRIMES and/or INTENTIONAL abuse was EVER done to POWs at Camp Sumter!!!)

the TRUTH is: The union army raged through the prostrated south like a herd of rabid swine, gleefully raping,torturing, robbing,looting, pillaging the poor, the non-whites (both slave & free),the Jews, Quakers, Asians & the Latinos without either MERCY or NECESSITY. this was the most awful & needless of actions of the Civil War, in that it was war for FUN & PROFIT;furthermore, these CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, like all such excesses, caused a LONGER, MUCH more bitter war than otherwise would have happened AND that bitterness lingers today. the commission of atrocities by an army ALWAYS causes a LONGER, more cruel & bitter war, as the opponents always "dig their collective heels" in after such UN-lawful actions.(no quotation marks, as i'm far from my home/books, but this is CLOSE to the quote.)

free dixie,sw

419 posted on 04/11/2008 10:28:31 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. Thomas Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie
may i gently suggest that you look at a map of the Caribbean to see the islands i'm talking about (as well as several of the Central/South American "land-side" nations)? Cuba was NOT the only one. Hispaniola, Martinique & many other smaller islands had slavery

Hispaniola at the time of the WBTS was divided into two nations, Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haiti underwent a horrific slave rebellion/war for independence in the early 1800s. No slavery there. The DR had ended slavery during its period of conquest by Haiti in the 20s and 30s. It was "recolonized" by Spain during most of the WBTS, which grabbed the opportunity of the Monroe Doctrine being dead for the moment, with the USA busy with other things. The reintroduction of slavery was rumoured, and was a major factor in the war of independence, which succeeded in 1865. Slavery was never re-established there.

Martinique (and Guadeloupe) are legally part of France, as is French Guiana. Slavery was permanently abolished in these areas in 1848.

Slavery was abolished in the Dutch Islands and Surinam in 1863, although vestiges hung on for another 15 years or so. Certainly no imports were permitted.

Slavery was abolished in Jamaica and all other British Islands and territories in 1834, with an "apprenticeship" abolished itself in 1838.

All slaves in the Danish Islands were freed in 1848.

Venezuela formally abolished slavery in 1854, although it was pretty well ended long before that. One source says 1821.

Colombia (includes Panama) abolished slavery in 1821.

I wasn't able to come up with a year for Costa Rica, but it was apparently in the 20s sometime, and slavery wasn't ever very important there.

Nicaragua abolished slavery early in the century. William Walker, a southern filibuster, conquered Nicaragua in 1856 and re-instituted slavery, but was promptly defeated and slavery revoked.

Slavery in Honduras ended in the early 1800s, haven't found a date.

Guatamela abolished slavery sometime in the early 1800s, Mexico in 1829.

I've now covered, I believe, every Caribbean and northern South American country. None had slavery, during the WBTS except Cuba (and the Dutch colonies during the early part of the war, but I believe even they prohibited imports).

(whether lawful or not. in some places, slaves were called "servants", "laborers" and/or "bondsmen", but they WERE slaves.)

Possible. Peonage and similar customs have existed for centuries in many places. Not exactly the same thing as chattel slavery, and not likely to fit well with importing massive amounts of foreigners.

You have claimed that northerners shipped massive numbers of slaves to the Caribbean during the WBTS. Please submit something resembling evidence or admit you made it up.

434 posted on 04/12/2008 9:20:03 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: stand watie; Bubba Ho-Tep
in 1864 a group of union "filth in blue" came onto our family's small farm in NC,had a 4-day drunken orgy of rape, looting (they must have gotten little, as our family HAD little to steal, other than household furnishings,a few cattle/hogs/poultry, hay/silage, etc.),burning,torturing & finally murdering everyone on the farm.

Just where was that farm, anyway?

And if everyone was murdered how do you know who did it?

Maybe it was the Confederates or the Home Guard.

Maybe it was so traumatic that you forgot that part.

443 posted on 04/12/2008 10:48:55 AM PDT by x
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To: stand watie
the TRUTH is that the union operated DEATH CAMPS, which were DESIGNED to cause harm/death to CSA prisoners

They weren't very good at it, were they? Union soldiers in CSA camps had a higher death rate than southern soldiers in USA death camps.

446 posted on 04/12/2008 10:55:46 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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