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Davis' bicentennial eclipsed by Lincoln
The Kentucky Kernel ^ | 3/28/08 | Jill Laster

Posted on 03/28/2008 12:15:10 PM PDT by cowboyway

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To: cowboyway

No, I mean “that’s not a good start” at getting over it.


181 posted on 04/02/2008 5:31:53 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: cowboyway
He was indicted for treason by a US court for the district of Virginia. He should have received a fair trial under the US Constitution in which he would have been acquitted.

As it turned out, it was the U.S. Constitution that prevented him being tried at all, leading to his release into well-deserved obscurity.

The nolle prosequi entered by the government in his case is a clear admission that they couldn't successfully convict him of treason, a de facto acquittal.

Hardly. Nolle prosequi is a decision not to proceed. It is not an acquittal, and the government could have proceeded again had they chosen to.

Was he or was he not the Commander in Chief.

Did the confederacy or did the confederacy not initiate the war by bombarding Sumter? It was their war, the death and destruction is on Davis's head.

182 posted on 04/02/2008 6:00:04 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it"

Hey kettle, you still calling the pot black?

Of 182 replies on this thread, non-sequitur has posted 49 replies; over 26%.

(Just another example of yankee hypocrisy......ya'll.)

183 posted on 04/02/2008 6:53:11 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: cowboyway
Of 182 replies on this thread, non-sequitur has posted 49 replies; over 26%.

Yeah but you're the one bitching and moaning and pitching a fit over the outcome of your rebellion.

This makes an even 50 right?

184 posted on 04/02/2008 7:04:20 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Correct. From the Southern side it was all about slavery. From the Northern side it was not.

The limits of your denial have no bounds.

Southern reason for secession: States rights.

northern reason for initiating hostilities: Politics.

Let that be a lesson to you then. Do not start a war unless you're willing to live with the consequences.

Up till now, the South has never started a war, but we've shown that we won't back down, even in the face of overwhelming odds. We're still like that, so, tread lightly.

Like I've told you before, you yankees should be thanking us for remaining in the union, otherwise, the north would be flying the Hammer & Sickle.

185 posted on 04/02/2008 7:05:03 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: Petronski
No, I mean “that’s not a good start” at getting over it.

Injustice should never be 'gotten over'.

Political corruption should never be 'gotten over'.

Should we just 'get over' Roe-v-Wade'? What about amnesty for the border jumpers? What about gun control? The attack on Christianity? The gay agenda? The global warming agenda?

Some things just need to be set right, regardless on time line or the politically correct environment.

So, I'm gonna keep hammering away and if that bothers you, then please, with all due respect, disappear.

186 posted on 04/02/2008 7:13:41 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: Non-Sequitur
As it turned out, it was the U.S. Constitution that prevented him being tried at all,

That statement is almost as ridiculous as your statement that the South never seceded and that there never was a Confederacy((((!!))))

into well-deserved obscurity

It's hard to imagine how you could top the above statement but you've somehow managed to do so.

From Google:

Results 1 - 10 of about 747,000 for jefferson davis confederate president

Results 1 - 10 of about 640,000 for abraham lincoln president

It is not an acquittal, and the government could have proceeded again had they chosen to.

I said a 'de facto' acquittal, which it was. Nolle prosequi was a nice tidy way for the corrupt yankee government to extricate themselves from the tangled web they had woven and to not have to face the court of world opinion with a public trial.

Did the confederacy or did the confederacy not initiate the war by bombarding Sumter? It was their war, the death and destruction is on Davis's head.

It has been shown on this thread (see post #66) that Lincoln purposely violated agreements with SC in order to commence hostilities. The war, the death and the destruction is solely on disHonest Abe's and the northern sheeples collective heads.

187 posted on 04/02/2008 7:32:32 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Yeah but you're the one bitching and moaning and pitching a fit over the outcome of your rebellion.

A typical offensive attack to try to deflect the question of why you can't just 'let it go'.

This makes an even 50 right?

Yeah. Does this mean that you're done?

188 posted on 04/02/2008 7:38:43 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: cowboyway
Injustice should never be 'gotten over'.

Freeing the slaves was not "injustice."

Quite the opposite.

189 posted on 04/02/2008 7:59:20 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: cowboyway
Exactly. Not about slavery, as advertised. ---- And all for the political ambitions of disHonest Abe

Allow me to rephrase.

And all for the political ambitions of disHonest Jeff.

For Davis it was not about liberty, states rights or anything other than slavery and the expansion of that institution as far as possible. To him, the Union meant little or nothing. Expanding slavery was everything.

Davis issued the first order to fire, not Lincoln.

And I am forever amazed at you people ignorant of our own history who attempt to turn it on its head to keep some idiotic sense of regional pride.

Davis and the the slaveocracy who put him in charge lead this nation to war in 1861. They were a highly profitable enterprise in human suffering who would have destroyed the nation for personal profit --- but you turn that fact into Lincoln being some evil genius for preventing them from doing so.

Learn some real history, including the economics that drove people like Davis to treason before you start tearing people like Lincoln apart.

190 posted on 04/02/2008 7:59:55 PM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: Ditto

The Great Slaver Rebellion of 1861 met a glorious and righteous end.

Descendants of the defeated don’t seem to like that.


191 posted on 04/02/2008 8:11:51 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski
The Great Slaver Rebellion of 1861 met a glorious and righteous end.

As the old saying goes, they had a tiger by the tail. To keep making profits from slavery, they had to keep expanding or the tiger would have eaten them. Their only problem with Lincoln, was his opposition to expansion.

I try not to be judgmental of people when studying history. In my studies of the period and the disputes leading to the Civil War, I found that loyalty to the Union was of little concern for the small percentage of very wealthy people who faced the destruction of their way of life if slavery had been contained as Lincoln advocated.

They rebel leaders acted rationally (if not morally) from their economic circumstances and morals. I can rationally understand that, but sorry, I can't admire it.

I don't hate Jeff Davis, but I do 'disrespect' people today who ignorantly try to elevate him to some patriot status over some idiot notion of regional pride or perverted notion of states rights.

That is just stupid. Davis was no hero. He was just another actor on the stage.

192 posted on 04/02/2008 8:28:51 PM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: cowboyway

Here’s a little more honest comparison.

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,000,000 for “jefferson davis”

Results 1 - 10 of about 8,530,000 for “abraham lincoln”


193 posted on 04/02/2008 8:30:01 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: Ditto
To keep making profits from slavery, they had to keep expanding or the tiger would have eaten them.

Everybody at the time believed this, on both sides of the issue.

I'm not so sure. There was no particular reason slavery couldn't have gone on being economically profitable in the South, at least if they changed some of their farming practices that essentially mined the soil.

Plantation agriculture wasn't going to expand much into the territories anyway. Tough to grow cotton in Nebraska.

That's why for the real pro-slavery guys secession was only the first step. After breaking away from the Union, they intended to conquer Latin America and impose slavery on nations most of which had already outlawed it.

They also planned to start the African slave trade up again. Of course, the Royal and US Navies might have had some input on the practicality of that idea.

194 posted on 04/02/2008 8:52:50 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: Petronski
Freeing the slaves was not "injustice."

Freeing the slaves was not the reason Lincln invaded the South. If Lincoln and the yankees had been so self-righteous about freeing the slaves, why didn't they emancipate all slaves north of the Mason-Dixon line before beginning their illegal and unjustified war against the Confederacy? That would have provided a wee bit of credibility to the 'war to end slavery' crap that you've swallowed.

Have you ever read the Emancipation Proclamation?

It was nothing but a political tool designed to provoke a general uprising in the Confederate States of America by slaves, which was actually damned reckless on Lincoln's part because an uprising may have resulted in the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of slaves.

Of course, disHonest Abe had probably figured that the slaughter of scores of slaves would have benefited his political agenda and aspirations, as well, so either way was fine with him.

By injustice I mean the invasion of a sovereign nation, the waging or war on women and children and the subsequent military occupation.

If freeing slaves is justification for military invasion, why aren't we invading Africa, Asia and other countries that are known by our State Department to permit slavery?

Modern Slavery

195 posted on 04/02/2008 8:54:29 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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To: cowboyway

Southron spin makes me laugh out loud.


196 posted on 04/02/2008 8:58:08 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: cowboyway
...their illegal and unjustified war against the Confederacy...


197 posted on 04/02/2008 8:59:05 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski

Lincoln took the same position as George III when it came to secession.


198 posted on 04/02/2008 9:05:10 PM PDT by Pelham (Press 1 for English)
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To: Pelham
You don't read, do you?
199 posted on 04/02/2008 9:26:22 PM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Ditto
And I am forever amazed at you people ignorant of our own history who attempt to turn it on its head to keep some idiotic sense of regional pride.

History is written by the victors. The victors always see themselves as the 'good guys'.

Not subscribing to your 'rewritten' version is not ignorance and I will submit to you that the opposite is true.

including the economics

Do you actually know anything about that?

Do you want to discuss the "Tariff of Abominations" in the 1820's and/or the Nullification Crisis of the 1830's?

people like Davis to treason before you start tearing people like Lincoln apart.

Davis was never even tried for treason so I don't think that the likes of you can convict him here or anywhere else.

On the other hand, Lincoln’s war against the Confederacy and Southern civilians was all for money, company profits and government tariff revenues. A simple case of political pay back in return for the Northeastern manufacturing interests that supported the Republican Party and his campaign for the presidency. These special interests would have suffered serious financial loss if a low tariff Confederate States of America were allowed to peacefully, democratically and constitutionally secede from the United States in lawful state constitutional conventions of secession which were identical to the ratification conventions when they had joined the Union. The real reasons for the death and destruction of Lincoln’s War were covered up and hidden by historians who continue, even today, to deny the truth.

There you go. Economics.

200 posted on 04/02/2008 9:33:16 PM PDT by cowboyway (Did I say that out loud?)
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