DF: Let's talk about your column for a minute. Yesterday, you wrote that it was time for Hillary to step aside--ML: What I said was that it would be best for the [Democratic] Party if she lost. But I also was quite clear: never count a Clinton out. Because even if they lose the game, they will wait for you in the parking lot by your car and say, "You think this is over? It's not."
What I really believe happened last night is that every day this goes on now, they help elect John McCain become president of the United States. He's going to run against both of them for months now.
I don't even know how this ends. I'm not smart enough to figure out superdelegates.
DF: Do you think that Hillary cares whether, if she goes down fighting for this nomination, she ends up taking Obama down with her?
ML: No. I always joke with my newspaper column, this is a tough column. Well, this is a hardball league, so wear a helmet. These are hardball players. Karl Rove didn't invent the kind of politics he's used for eight years. He learned bare-knuckle politics from [the Clintons].
In my opinion, they don't care. They don't care what happens to the party in the short run if she doesn't win the nomination. I don't think she cares. No one who gets to this level in politics is without ambition.
But there was this tone for a month that she couldn't believe this was happening, that she was falling behind. It was like she was saying, "Don't you know how long I've waited for this? Don't you know how good I am for you? Don't you know how qualified I am?"
They don't care how much they mess him up. The only end game for them is for her to win the nomination, whether she wins the presidency or not. They're bad losers, and they did just enough over the last five days to peck at him, especially in Ohio.
I think of a description Arthur Ashe had of John McEnroe's tennis game. He said, "A nick here, a nick there, and pretty soon you're bleeding to death." I don't think Obama is bleeding to death, but he's been hit.