Rich "Goose" Gossage Elected to Hall of Fame

ESPN.com ^ | January 8, 2008 | News Services

[Dr. Sivana]

I’d go back and look at the stats. Burt Hooton had only two years which were better than Sutton’s, and I could only see one, maybe two, years where Tommy John was better.

I don't have to look at the stats, I watched the games, and Lasorda also picked him as the #3 guy in the rotation, and not just because he went half a round with Steve Garvey. Stats don't tell the whole story. I am also not suggesting that Hooten belongs in the Hall of Fame. My point is that Sutton was never the lead guy on the Dodgers staff when the Dodgers had a very good pitching staff. If it wasn't Hooten, it'd be Welch, or Sutcliffe. So, Sutton was better than Reuss, Rhoden, Hough, Goetz and Rau, but was only #1 in the rotation after the whole staff declined. He is in the Hall of Fame because he was above average for a very long time. I wrote this from memory, without checking stats, but I know what a Hall of Fame pitcher pitches like. Sutton wasn't one of them, in my opinion.

[GreatOne]

I would agree. In reviewing the records (from baseball-reference.com), it appears that there were always 1 or 2 better pitchers than Sutton, and those 2 would be different pitchers. Definitely not the type of guy who should be in the HOF.

[Tall_Texan]

Sutton is in the Hall for two reasons: 1) he won over 300 games. 2) he went into broadcasting. He hit the milestone that many baseball writers equate with Hall-worthiness (like 3,000 hits in baseball) and he became part of the media once his career was over, so his name and face were continually present to stay in the voters minds.

[magritte]

Trivia: Gossage is the first reliever inducted into the Hall that was not a member of the St. Louis Cardinals.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Agree about Rice. Guess the lack of a championship ring hurts him.

And he retired too young. Everyone had pegged him to break Aaron's record (including Aaron), so retiring at 36 with "only" 386 HRs left behind the feeling that Rice had unfinished business.

[MikeD]

That makes two of us (I won’t repost my arguments from an earlier thread). Murph in 09!

[grey_whiskers]

His ERA was 3.00 or under 10 times, and most of those seasons his win total was under 15 games. That demonstrates tremendous lack of run support. If his average victory total was 16 instead of 14 (per baseball-reference.com), we probably wouldn't need to have this conversation.

I think one ought to temper the consideration of the wins by looking at the teams on which a pitcher played. For example, Bob Gibson is in the hall of fame with only 251 lifetime wins (due to lack of offensive support). He went 22-9 in 1968...with an ERA of 1.12!!

Also, to reach 300 wins (however long you play) means you have to be good enough to stay in the big leagues a very long time, and deliver at a fairly consistent level for the whole time...that kind of long-term presence adds to the stability and popularity of the game.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

Off topic. Just read your tagline. YOWZA!!

[fkabuckeyesrule]

****Bert Blyleven should not have made it.****

It's interesting to note that when Bert Blyleven and Nolan Ryan were in their late 30's they basically had the same stats and Blyleven could make a case for the Hall Of Fame. But then of course Ryan took off and the rest is history.

One player I like who never gets enough attention is Dave Concepcion. He was a pretty good hitter for a SS and he started the whole concept of the bounce throw from deep in the hole to first base by throwing a bounce-throw to 1B.

[fkabuckeyesrule]

*****Sutton got in out of mere longevity****

Same could be said for Phil Niekro.

[fkabuckeyesrule]

I saw Frankie Frisch in an old timers game when I was a kid. The Gas House Gang that was still alive in 1971 was there.

[Billthedrill]

Axydlbaaxr = Longfellow

Longfellow couldn't hit a big-league curveball and I think the guy was juicing anyway. When they traded him for Wordsworth and a cracked bat I didn't cry...

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Ha!!!! I haven’t seen that in forever

[Dr. Sivana]

Same could be said for Phil Niekro.

I cut Phil Niekro more slack because he managed to go .500 or better 5 out of 6 years with a team that couldn't must more than 70 years during that stretch (Braves, 74-79). He even had a 20 win season with a the 66-94 1979 Braves. (He finished 21-20).

Lesser men would have done themselves in.

[MikeD]

Thanks. I swiped it from a comment another Freeper made. Unfortunately, I don’t remember who originally made the comment, and I had to edit it down a bit to fit inside the tag allotment.