Posted on 12/27/2007 2:35:00 PM PST by Shermy
The wall of a moat that surrounds the enclosure from which a 350-pound tiger escaped on Christmas Day was actually far shorter than San Francisco Zoo officials thought and what national standards recommend, authorities said today.
Zoo officials have gone back and forth on the grotto's measurements since Tuesday's attack, which killed 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. and seriously injured his friends. Relatives and public records identify the friends as brothers Paul Dhaliwal, 19, and Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23.
Earlier this week, zoo officials said the moat's wall was at least 20 feet tall. Today they said it was little over 12 feet. Officials have given at least five different measurements for the enclosure, which is surrounded by a moat, two walls on either side of the moat, a small patch of grass and then another waist-high fence. Experts say that the depth of the moat and height of the walls could have a large impact on the animal's ability to escape the enclosure...
..Zoo officials and police authorities today are backing off earlier statements to The Chronicle that the victims may have dangled a limb over the animal's enclosure, helping the 350-pound cat escape. But they would not rule it out.
At a news conference this morning at the zoo, officials said there was no shoe found in the enclosure. On Wednesday, unnamed sources had said that authorities found a shoe and blood on the grass inside the enclosure; today, Police Chief Heather Fong said there was no shoe found in the grotto. A shoe was discovered near where the third victim was attacked, she said; and a shoeprint was also found on the railing of the waist-high fence surrounding the grotto.
...An examination of the tiger's body also revealed a significant amount of concrete in its back paws..
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
Tigers are the best swimmers of all of the big cats. I’ve seen shows where they have been known to swim long distances and can leap out of the water to kill prey.
“I feel better now. I’m not the only one explaining why it’s shorter than expected.”
Why do you “feel better”? Do you have an agenda against zoos?
Let me asl you this, in all seriousness, and with no snarkiness. I’ve spent a LOT of time at the zoo. I had year-round passes for years, went almost every weekend to get exercise, draw and photograph the animals, and because it was a way to donate to the zoological society. I’ve spent a LOT of time in the tiger area, inside and out.
The way the zoo used to be set up, I believe they changed it with the new layout, is that 20 feet away from the tiger grottos, there were ‘savanah” enclosures, with zebra and gazelle and other animals a tiger would love to eat. I’ve watched the tigers stop in their tracks and sniff the wind when it shifted, when they could smell the zebras. I saw peacocks and pidgeons in the moat, and the tigers did’nt even pay attention. The tigers are well fed, and it’s timed so that they are drowsy and digesting their meals during park hours, purposely.
I *never* saw a tiger move towards the moat, let alone the wall.
Why does the height of the wall *now* matter, when all these years - and the enclosures were built a long, long, long time ago, a tiger *never* attempted nor got up that wall?
It had no *reason* to.
And this time, when one DID, it did’nt go after a beast of prey, which are nearby, or into another pit, after a female in heat (it was a female that attacked, anyway), or made a break for freedom, or hid (which most tigers do in the wild, they are NOT social animals), nor did it seek escape from the zoo.
No, it tracked, stalked, and killed one prey and attacked two others.
Why?
Answer that, then, how?
The only answer that makes sense, is they provoked it, and provided means to allow the tiger to escape. If they provoked a tiger enough just throwing pinecones and sticks - which has been reported as having been found in the moat, and there are no pine trees near the tigers - that tiger would have been making a godawful racket, and the keepers would have responded. Tigers are very vocal when upset - you can see it when they feed them. They scream, literally, and they are LOUD.
No, I think the kids provoked it, one of them, probably the one who died stuck a limb in, and the tiger used him as a ladder to get at the three provoking her. She was shot standing over her intended kill. She did’nt stop to eat the first kill, so we can safely ( IMHO) rule out hunger. Tigers don’t kill multiple animals to feed, they kill ONE. She attacked 3.
Now, having said all of that, IF the walls were too low, that’s a legitimate issue that needs to be looked at, but they’d been given a green light all these years by the officials who regulate these things. We either have a massive, instititiuonal failure, and all zoos need to be looked at, or we have a freak occurance where the low wall only became an issue because the 3 teens created it.
Personally, I’m leaning towards closing the zoo, because it’s impossible to create a ‘safe” zoo that keeps the idiotic public from throwing themselves into the cages, and getting killed. I equate it with that idiot who ‘communed” with the bears in Alaska, and got consumed. The bears were;nt at fault, his idiocy WAS, and in this case, if the kids provoked that tiger, and i seriously suspect they did, then they get their own page on the Darwin Awards for being complete morons. I’d say the same about a 17 year old riding a cheap Japanese motorcycle at 100 MPH in shorts and no helmet. Waste of a life, too bad they had no common sense.
Females of this planet have a joke they like to share amongst themselves.
For it is the male of our species who sees six inches and calls it nine inches.
Thus, well who was measuring that wall...a male or a female?
Several people have mentioned that this might have been video taped but the evidence will never be acknowledged. Why? That would clear things up. Why, if there is evidence that these guys were involved would it be kept quiet?
The national standards for a tiger enclosure are a 16'4" vertical barrier.
See post #43 as to who was responsible for the standards.
The SF Zoo originally claimed the barrier was 20' tall.
Now, as it turns out, the barrier was only 12'.
"Maybe" is an understatement.
Him too!
On the other hand, I have loved some of the smaller zoos I've visited. Salisbury, Maryland had one of the nicest small zoos I've ever seen. More of a park than a prison, with the animals seeming more like pets on a tidy farm. Fancy birds, some oddities, not too many stinking monkeys, buffalo babies, and one panther (not such a big cat to manage) that always slept. A good cat for a small zoo is an ocelot. There's always the snakehouse for a good shiver.
Your post is very interesting.
I agree with you although I don’t have such extensive zoo knowledge as you. But I know a bit about animals and go on, that tiger was enraged. I understand that a tiger is a vengeful animal. Somehow, someway, she felt threatened enough to attack those guys. I can’t believe that it was just a matter of throwing pinecones. But hey, if they were hitting the tiger and hurting her...well, well....
Although hey, my guess is that the guys were likely inside the grassy area at the very least, and who knows, they could have somehow gotten inside the grotto proper.
Maybe the wall still is 20 feet, but the ground just got higher. Erosion from the surrounding walls or wind carrying minute pieces of sand and dirt might have gradually built up over the years (the thing was built in the 40’s)until the distance from the bottom of the moat to the top of the wall was only 12.5 feet.
It is a maybe IMO, still because there are different reports. If it was too low then the zoo will and should have to accept responsibility. I'm sceptical though. It could happen but don't they have government inspections? How could this have been an oversite all these years? We may see a combination where regs weren't met and the young men were on the wrong side of the fence too. I don't know. Time will tell, I guess.
I heard earlier that Veronica Corningstone narrowly escaped a mauling herself. It was fortunate that Ron Burgundy was nearby (he had apparently been there the whole time, literally... Is that you Wilt!!??)
(I immediately regret my decision to post that. To all Anchorman fans, please feel free to improve on my minimal attempt at humor.)
Hiya Mamzelle.
You mentioned the Salisbury zoo and what a surprise. I live about thirty miles from Salisbury Merryland.
I love the Cape May NJ zoo which I get to via the Lewes ferry. It has a “boardwalk” that snakes in and out of a forest.
that is a good point, illegal aliens kill and maim many more people than this every day of the year and it never makes the front page
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My favorite part of the Salisbury Zoo would be the Fancy Ducks—just a small, plexiglass-surrounded pond/pool with several American ducks (and duck-like waterfowl) that most people never get to see IRL. The Eastern Shore is known for the decoy carving. I think they moved them out at night into a duck barn...
“Several people have mentioned that this might have been video taped but the evidence will never be acknowledged. Why? That would clear things up. Why, if there is evidence that these guys were involved would it be kept quiet?”
That’s a very, very good question, Cindy.
Perhaps it would’nt clear things up for the boys, who *might* face charges stemming from the death of their freind. If they helped provoke the tiger, and their friend died, they will be charged with his murder, this is not, I strongly, strongly suspect, a case of the zoo being negligent or it being a random tragedy.
I’ve talked to the keepers at the zoo many, many times, they are knowledgeable, educated, dedicated people, some with ph.ds, who live on a tiny fraction of the money they could earn, caring for those animals. They watch them every day, all day, all year. if there was even a HINT that a tiger, even an aggressive one like a Siberian, could scale that wall, I strongly suspect it would have been dealt with a long time ago. These are not uncaring people, their keepers care more about those cats than they do having familes or making money, they make huge sacrifices to do what they do.
I just don’t see the SF Zoo people being that clueless, or careless, about their animals, or the safety of the public. This doesnt add up as an accident or freak occurance. i’ve been there, many, many times, the tigers do not go down in the pit, it’s not like it was an everyday occurance that someone would be teasing a tiger, with it jumping up down at the bottom, like a dog after a stick. (There’s also very little water, it’s supposed to be dry, but water collects from rainwater - the tigers are watered at the top of the enclosure. They *might* go into the water to cool off, but it very rarely gets that hot in that part of SF. )
I’m no expert. I could be wrong, but I don’t think the height of the wall is the reason for this. if the tiger had been making attempts to scale that wall in the past, it would’nt have been IN that enclosure, I strongly suspect. They;ve been in there for over 60 years without incident, after all.
Also, for those who lump the SFZoo in with the freaks in the city, don’t. They have been at odds with SF for a long time, the PETA freaks in the Bay Area have been against the zoo for decades, and the libs think it’s a waste of space, and they get very little support from the city financially, it’s all funded by selling admittance and donations. The zoo has come close to closing several times due to lack of funding, and like I’ve said, it might be better if they close or move, or go private, it’s not appreciated, and if our current crop of teens are too dumb NOT to go in a tiger pit, and then the parents expect to get paid, then we need to shut the zoos to the public.
You are right! The other 3 walls look very questionable especially the back wall.
No, the cop already did that.
“The problem with zookeeping is when the managers get too ambitious. I find the huge zoos in the “Great Cities” to be depressing. Trying to exhibit all the big cats, the large fragile primates (gorillas), the more dangerous herd animals—it’s just better to specialize than to try to be that big.”
Perhaps, but not so much with the SF Zoo, it’s not that big, compared to St. loius or San Diego. It’s actually quite small, not as small as the Oakland zoo, but small. They also specialize at the SF zoo, they are a big player in the area of cats, like the snow leopard, and tigers - but they don’t have a reptile house.
They have room for what they do have, and the new enclosures, like the meercat island, are really great leaps forward in natural habitat, or close to it, as opposed to cages - and I think the cats were in the final phase for new enclosures, I know the lions got new ones.
Sounds reasonable. I still can't believe the 12' wall thing. Mobile homes (single wide) are often 12' wide!
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