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To: Fennie

Most would laugh at this, but 60+ years ago, there was an address before the politburo from a Russian General who stated that this was indeed their plan. I remember getting a briefing on this one in a training class in the USAF back in the 80’s.
He went so far as to state that they would in fact use capitalism to obtain the materials needed in order to defeat us — effectively they would use our rope to hang us.
I never thought twice about that, until Putin woke the bear from hibernation.


24 posted on 11/25/2007 9:50:28 AM PST by ImaGraftedBranch (...And we, poor fools, demand truth's noon, who scarce can bear its crescent moon.)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Most would laugh at this, but 60+ years ago, there was an address before the politburo from a Russian General who stated that this was indeed their plan. I remember getting a briefing on this one in a training class in the USAF back in the 80’s. He went so far as to state that they would in fact use capitalism to obtain the materials needed in order to defeat us — effectively they would use our rope to hang us. I never thought twice about that, until Putin woke the bear from hibernation.

I don't think the wounds to the former USSR are fatal and I do believe it will be back likely stronger than ever. They are still a military capable nation even having the infrastructure in place to produce weapons. Their plants are shuttered but not torn down unlike the United States former defense production plants. An influx of money will cure those woes for Russia and they will be ahead of us in production capabilities.

The fall of the USSR was for prophetic reasons and I see it as being short lived. Russia will join forces with Arabic nations to go to war against Israel.

49 posted on 11/25/2007 10:21:20 AM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

The globalist’s long ago co-opted all the significant leaders of any significance in any significant country.

It is, evidently, only a matter of whether a given leader will rush us to the global tyrannical government at the speed of light—like Shrillery . . . or someone else will move us there somewhat slower.


50 posted on 11/25/2007 10:22:33 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
I remember getting a briefing on this one in a training class in the USAF back in the 80’s. He went so far as to state that they would in fact use capitalism to obtain the materials needed in order to defeat us — effectively they would use our rope to hang us.

I don't even nec. doubt that such a "plan" could have existed in the minds of this or that delusional Soviet. That doesn't mean that (a) everything that has happened since has gone according to such a "plan" or that (b) some sort of resurgence is inevitable because that's what the "plan" says.

Was Chernobyl part of the "plan"? the devaluation of the ruble? the pyramid schemes and kleptocracy of the 1990s? rejection of Russia-linked leaders in former Soviet state after former Soviet state (cf. Yuschenko, Ukraine)? all part of the "plan"?

Heck, let's even stipulate that that it was - that all of that is part of the "plan". My conclusion: terrible, terrible "plan".

Let's remember, these are people who had plenty of "plans" over the course of 70 years. None of them worked out all that well; why would we give them unwarranted credit for the ability to craft "plans", or imbue those "plans" with any sort of genius or momentum?

I never thought twice about that, until Putin woke the bear from hibernation.

Putin "woke" nothing, he just makes more noises, so what. Russia is a sad, backwards mafia state and getting more so. The only thing the USSR really had going for it was that it was seen as the vanguard of an ideology that appealed to romantics and intellectuals. But that ideology has been thoroughly eviscerated and now all Russia really has is oil money and the ruthless men who sit on it. Russia's greatest minds come to the west and get rich in computers or Wall Street. (another part of the "plan"?) Those left behind either have no sense of national pride (the state religion having been discredited) or, in some cases, lapse into an ugly variation of skinheadism. Meanwhile the birthrate is deflating, the "state" has devolved & is somewhat of a fiction (Moscow functions as a sort of superstate-within-the-state). The armed forces rely on conscripts for crying out loud (those who can't bribe or college their way out of it).

This may be enough to convert Russia into something akin to Saudi Arabia but that is a far cry from USSR at its peak.

63 posted on 11/25/2007 10:45:51 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: ImaGraftedBranch

I too have always been skeptical of the Soviet morph.

We have disarmed to a very large extent.
Heck, we are taking missile subs and redesigning them for conventional weapons and Seal deployment duty.
I believe we no longer have any land based ICBMs.

We are designing conventional warheads for sub based ICBMs. A multi-zillion dollar missile carrying a conventional warhead!! Have we lost our minds?
We don’t have enough troops to peacekeep in Iraq. What if there was a real war?

And what has Russia done while we are junking capability?

Developed new ICBMs they claim are capable of penetrating any anti-missile defense we are likely to field.
And developed other offensive weapons that slip my mind at the moment. A new bomber IIRC

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the whole reinvention of the Soviet Union was to disarm us.

It could explain Putin’s vehement objection to anti-missiles in Poland, some of the ‘Stans.
He’s not worried about stray incomings, he is concerned about his outgoing.


78 posted on 11/25/2007 11:26:49 AM PST by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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