Posted on 10/12/2007 12:34:23 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative
1. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
2. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Manny Ramirez, LF
5. Mike Lowell, 3B
6. Bobby Kielty, RF
7. Jason Varitek, C
8. Coco Crisp, CF
9. Julio Lugo, SS
NOTES: This is the first time since the start of the three division era that the two LCS series have each matched the two best records in their league (96-66). Computer baseball sim Imagine Sports/Diamond Mind Baseball ran the 2007 ALCS 1,000 times, and the Red Sox won 59% of the time. If the Red Sox won game 1, they won the series 72.5% of the time, and if Cleveland won, the Indians won 59% of the time.
Those “got rings” shirts reflect 20 WS victories that happened when there were no playoffs. The divisional playoffs started in 1969. I’ll give them credit for being the dominant franchise the last 12 years but talking up what Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig did 80 years ago is rather childish.
Is it loyalty or is it the Front Office saying that benching Crispy is going to tank his trade value even more than he’s already done to himself? There is no logic to keeping him in the line up.
He has trouble transitioning from a regular season manager's mindset to a playoff manager's mindset. For the former, you manage to win a few weeks from now, for the latter, you manage to win the game. Hell, neither Torre or Wedge have any trouble tinkering with their line-ups . . .
The only difference that I have seen with Francona is that he has been yanking pitchers earlier than he normally does.
I don’t think it’s fair to make Ellsbury the saviour but what harm would it do in letting him have a shot? We won’t blame Francona for playing him.
Call in the dogs, fold up the tent and put some water on the fire.
Its OVER.
The Indians are not chokers like the 04 Yankees.
I say we are just limping along....oh me of little faith. But hope is a still alive, a small flickering flame.
My brother has an original bobble head of that chief.
God, I love the Red Sox, they never fail to keep you on the edge of your baseball seat. I can tell from this thread that once again the Red Sox are never ever predictable, and once a Red Sox Fan, Always a Red Sox Fan. Thanks for keeping me posted on this game Granite State Conservative. GO RED SOX!
Chief Wahoo is the man !
W00h00!! .... mean... Wah00!
As much as I dislike the Curly Haired Boyfriend, his comments ring so very true. I really have to wonder how John Henry’s friendship and affinity for Theo will prevemt him from dishing out the accountibility that Theo and his crew deserve for the fate of the Sox this year......
Red Sox’ Epstein, Francona in for blame
By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | October 17, 2007
So there. For the 86th consecutive autumn, the Red Sox are not going to win the World Series. - Boston Sunday Globe, Oct. 17, 2004
CLEVELAND - Those were my words. And as Rick Pitino once said, that’s how I felt at the time.
The statement appeared on the front page of this newspaper the day after the Yankees crushed the Sox, 19-8, at Fenway Park in Game 3 of the 2004 American League Championship Series.
The Globe has yet to run a correction. And I have tried to be more careful regarding declarative statements. Never say never and all that.
In this spirit, we remind despondent Red Sox Nationalists that the Sox can still beat the Indians and advance to a World Series that would start Wednesday at Fenway. Josh Beckett is certainly capable of winning tomorrow night and Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka can win back to back at Fenway this weekend. Right?
There are multiple examples of comebacks from 3-1 in baseball and basketball. I remember the Pittsburgh Pirates coming back to beat the Orioles after falling behind, 3-1, in the 1979 World Series. Earl Weaver had Mike Flanagan, Jim Palmer, and Scott McGregor lined up for Games 5, 6, and 7. Remember the Celtics against the 76ers in 1981? And of course, Sox fans will always have Paris - the 2004 comeback from 0-3 against the Yankees. It’s important to remember all that at a time like this.
But . . .
There’s just so much working against your team. It’s hard to be positive. And even though the Sox aren’t done yet, some of us are already at work carving up the blame pie (speaking of pies, a Cleveland sportscaster did his postgame TV show wearing a cream pie on his head late Tuesday).
Theo Epstein is in for his share of finger-pointing if the Sox are eliminated by the Tribe. It’s never a good thing when your $143 million payroll bites the dust against a team with a $61 million payroll. Dan Duquette assembled half of the 2004 champs, but what we are looking at today is almost exclusively Theo’s team and it’s his most recent acquisitions who have been exposed thus far in October.
Certainly, John Henry expected he was buying a pitcher who could finish five innings of a playoff game when he committed $103 million to Matsuzaka. Julio Lugo (.208) and J.D. Drew (.231) continue to be a drag on the lineup and the payroll. And then there’s Coco Crisp (.192), who looks more and more like a man who’s going to be traded this winter. Organization poster boy Dustin Pedroia is hitting .172 against the Tribe. Manny Delcarman is 0-2 in important situations in the ALCS, and Eric Gagné has replaced Grady Little as He Who Must Not Be Named.
Theo’s guys, one and all.
At this hour, however, it’s the manager who’s taking a beating throughout the Nation. Even though it might have been a baseball ops decision, Terry Francona will be the one blamed for not pitching Beckett in Game 4. There was a whisper campaign Tuesday night, hinting that maybe Beckett didn’t pitch because of a sore back, and the manager gave it some credence today, saying, “I think I might have said he was kind of beat up, or it took a toll on him.”
If Beckett is hurting, he shouldn’t pitch tomorrow night. If he’s not, Game 4 on three days’ rest would have allowed him to pitch three times in this series. Now the Sox are looking at (best case) Dice-K or Wakefield again in Game 7 and Beckett only twice in the series. At the risk of piling on, it was pretty clear the Tim Wakefield start wasn’t going to have a good outcome. He’d won one game since Aug. 25, had given up 24 runs in his last 25 innings, had taken two cortisone shots in the shoulder, had a career postseason ERA of 6.12, and hadn’t pitched in 2 1/2 weeks.
It’s folly to suggest that Francona’s loyalty to Wakefield got in the way of the team making a correct decision, but in this series, the manager’s inflexibility has bordered on stubbornness (remember Don Zimmer?). Failing to address the Wakefield issue after the Game 2 disaster is only part of the story. It’s Tito’s inaction with the lineup that has many fans fuming.
The Sox have scored in only two of the last 24 innings, and in that time, they have not scored on anything that wasn’t a home run. They have been outscored, 18-5, since the 11th inning of Game 2.
Why no alterations in the top or bottom of the order? Why no Jacoby Ellsbury? With southpaw C.C. Sabathia going tomorrow night, there’s no call for the kid, but would it have been too radical to start him in Game 3 or 4?
“I think part of my responsibility is, when you think you know what’s right to stay with what’s right,” Francona said Tuesday. “If you go away with what got you there, I think that’s cheating the players.”
The L-word word was tossed at the manager again before today’s workout, and he said, “There’s a difference between being loyal and doing what you think is right.”
At the end of the day, it may just be that the Indians are better. Perhaps the Tribe lineup should get credit for doing what no one did in 2007 - knocking out three successive Boston starters before the end of the fifth inning. Certainly, Cleveland’s bullpen has been superior to Boston’s, rendering Jonathan Papelbon a nonfactor thus far in the series.
The Indians, remember, also won 96 games this year. They have yet to lose a home playoff game and they’re up, 3-1, on the Sox without any contributions from 19-game winners Sabathia and Fausto Carmona, who are on tap to pitch tomorrow night and Saturday.
Lastly, we must address the larger forces. Manny Ramírez today said he was not trying to show anybody up and he had some fun striking poses during batting practice, but his Cadillac moment (raising his arms as if he’d just hit a walkoff when his sixth-inning blast cut the score to 7-3) at home plate in Game 4 was classless and obnoxious. It was an embarrassment to anyone who says they love baseball and/or the Red Sox.
No one will ever say anything, of course, but you have to wonder what his teammates and manager really think.
Ramírez was not in the Sox dugout when Mike Lowell and Drew made the first outs against Cleveland closer Joe Borowski in the ninth. He came back from whatever he was doing to watch Crisp line to first for the final out.
Today in a rare interview, Ramírez said, “If it doesn’t happen, so who cares? There’s always next year. It’s not like it’s the end of the world or something.”
That should fire everybody up.
It doesn’t feel like we are watching a team that can crawl out of this hole. But some of us said the same thing in 2004 when Ramírez wound up being MVP of the World Series.
So: when is the Sox lineup card due out today? Any bets on whether Francona makes any changes, or will stubbornness prevail over common sense again?
Probably a few hours before game time. With a lefty starting for the Tribe I would not expect Ellsbury to get a start although Kielty will likely get the nod over Nancy Drew.
Pedroia needs to come out of the lead off spot at a minimum. Either bat him 2nd of have him hitting ninth. Have Lugo lead off and tell him that his job is to bunt his way on walk or lean into a pitch. Tell Crisp the same thing.
I can all but guarantee there will be exactly one personnel change: Kielty for Drew, because Kielty has better numbers than Drew against Sabathia.
I don't agree with Shank about Wakefield. He was pitching very well up until the disaster in the fifth. The problem is that the bats are completely constipated. We haven't played with the lead since the middle innings of game two.
Theo and his organization are very good at scouting amateur talent, but they are absolutely awful at scouting professional talent. Forget the fact that Lugo and Drew have been utter disappointments this year, numbers-wise, and remember the roles they expected these guys to fill: Lugo was supposed to be the plate-setting lead-off hitter, and Drew was supposed to be the protection for Manny Ramirez. Theo and his gang were so off in their analysis that Lugo ended up to be a weak-hitting number nine hitter, and Drew is useless no matter where you put him in the line-up.
How the hell can you get that sort of thing so completely wrong, Theo? Add in Drew's salary---both the dollar amount and the length of the contract---and you'll scratch your head until you go bald.
Speaking on behalf of Indians fans everywhere, the virtually 100% coverage from the Boston point of view over the past 36 hours is way past tiring.
When the Sox came back from 3-0 in 2004, it was amazing. It was amazing since it was a sports feat of incomparable rarity. The talking heads are all busy talking up a comeback like it’s almost expected.
I, for one, am tired of it all. In the past 2 days, there’s been less coverage of the Indians on the brink of the World Series than there’s been coverage of (select any one) Torre; A-Rod; Jeter’s sexual misgivings.
I suppose it’s the media’s last grasp at attention to their content, as I would believe none of them expect a Rockies/Indians series to garner any attention by the viewing public.
Thats my 2¢.
I dunno . . . I think the Indians are a really good story, and they're getting their fair share of coverage. You guys have an outstanding team that's strong in all aspects of the game, top to bottom. If you beat us, it'll be because you're the better team, plain and simple.
No punch at the top or bottom of the order will eventually catch up to you. Proposing Julio Lugo as a leadoff hitter now seems like a comical idea. Sorry Terry, but Jacoby Ellsbury ought to have been there Tuesday night, period. Leaving the Lovely Miss Drew in the Five Hole to "protect" Manny is an even more amusing thought: right now the only thing he's protecting is the threat of getting dirt on his uniform.
Unless someone provides a BIG spark tonight, this series will be remembered as a battle between a lean, hungry team (the Tribe) and a salary-fattened, underachieving one (your Boston Red Sox).
aww, you’re making me feel all gushy inside...(not sarcasm, just a friendly reply)
Yes, yes, and yes.
The Sox, more-or-less, are the anti-Patriots, and have been all season. They lack the killer instinct.
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