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Dell to run Windows and Linux together
Birmingham Post ^ | 14 August 2007 | Staff

Posted on 08/14/2007 2:58:55 PM PDT by ShadowAce

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To: ShadowAce
Listen folks, the only reason for this move of Dell's is to counter the screaming increase in popularity of Mac hardware, running Vmware Fusion. That's why they are carefully sidestepping the question about running Mac OS X on a Dell PC -- it won't happen.

On a Mac with Fusion, you have have EVERY OS as a guest.

On a PC, you can have everything EXCEPT Mac OS X.

So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Mac hardware PLUS VMware Fusion is the perfect combination to have it all. Hence Dell's brilliant but utterly transparent move to counter the threat from Apple.

21 posted on 08/14/2007 3:23:43 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored; Reeses
You can create a Linux-like environment running as an application on a Windows system by installing Cygwin. You can set up telnet access, use most Linux commands, etc. Cygwin: don't leave /home without it.

Cygwin's cool, I use it daily on my Windows boxes. But it ain't the same as a virtual machine, by any stretch of the imagination.

Exactly. While I do have Cygwin installed on this WinXP box, I'm also running a Windows 2000 Server, Suse Linux Enterprise Server, and NetWare 6.0 at the same time, on this very box...

Mark

22 posted on 08/14/2007 3:24:04 PM PDT by MarkL (Listen, Strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government)
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To: dayglored
That's not true any more.

I just checked the license at Microsoft's site (PDF), and it still says you can't virtualize Basic or Premium. Do I have an old version?

23 posted on 08/14/2007 3:24:34 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: taxcontrol
> VMWare is not the only virtualization software. Xen / Virtuozzo etc are other titles. Each with it’s own set of strengths and weaknesses.

Quite so.

I've used VMware for about two years on a variety of host hardware and OSes, running all manner of guest OSes, with nearly perfect results. I currently am running Mac hardware (MacBook) with Fusion, and gave an identical setup to my 14-yr old daughter who likewise is doing fine with it.

I don't know of any other competing product with that breadth of coverage, or high success rate. So I'm something of a VMware fanboy at the moment. No connection with Vmware itself, of course. Just a happy customer.

24 posted on 08/14/2007 3:27:07 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored
I just went to their Web site.

Looks like a likely solution to my Vista problems...

Does one create a virtual machine and then install the operating system onto that virtual machine? So I need to either go purchase XP to install on the virtual machine or use the Win2k that I already own.

How bad is the performance hit? Do you have to have drivers for the virtual machine OS that support the actual hardware or does it use the existing Vista drivers?

I'm excited. Perhaps I can continue to use some of my old engineering tools without rewriting them all.

25 posted on 08/14/2007 3:27:13 PM PDT by DB
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To: antiRepublicrat
>> That's not true any more.

> I just checked the license at Microsoft's site (PDF), and it still says you can't virtualize Basic or Premium. Do I have an old version?

Maybe. I'll have to dig out the article I saw a couple weeks ago that mentioned that Microsoft was removing their limitations on the lower-end versions, due to vendor and customer demand. Might even have been an FR thread on it. Sorry I don't have it at my fingertips yet...

26 posted on 08/14/2007 3:29:13 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored
I tend to see VMware in business applications where the MANAGEMENT of the OS instances is the primary concern for things like business continuity, provisioning etc.

I tend to see XEN where the PERFORMANCE of the OS instance is the primary concern or where there are limited funds for the virtualization software. Mostly schools and medium sized business.

Interestingly, though I’m not sure of the impact, I see more hosting companies leaving VMware and migrating to Virtuozzo or XEN.

27 posted on 08/14/2007 3:31:08 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: DB
Microsoft's own Virtual PC runs on Windows Vista Business, Windows Vista Enterprise, and Windows Vista Ultimate. I use it on XP Pro to run about a half dozen other operating systems including DOS, Windows 3.1 (don't ask me why, I guess because I can) BSD and even a couple of different XP configurations for testing.

You can run afoul of Microsoft licensing as you'll need a license for each MS OS installed in the virtual machine.

My main virtual machine host is an AMD 4800+ and while none of the virtual machines run as fast as they would if they were on a dedicated machine they aren't so slow that they can't be easily tolerated.

I'm not married to Virtual PC over any of the others for any other reason than I used it before Connectix sold out to MS and since it's now free updates are cheap. I don't know if it'd solve your problem but other than a bit of download time it wouldn't hurt to try if you still have a copy of XP you can virtualize.

28 posted on 08/14/2007 3:32:14 PM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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To: DB
> I just went to their Web site. Looks like a likely solution to my Vista problems...

Might be. I certainly won't install Vista or any other Windows, native on the hardware, ever again.

> Does one create a virtual machine and then install the operating system onto that virtual machine? So I need to either go purchase XP to install on the virtual machine or use the Win2k that I already own.

Correct. One creates a VM, using VMware's tools, and then boot that just like you'd boot a desktop with a blank hard drive. Insert your OS CD and install just like on a desktop.

>How bad is the performance hit?

Unnoticeable in general, because it's running in native x86 code. There may be a small hit for access to virtualized peripherals, but I haven't seen anything more than 5% or so even at the worst.

> Do you have to have drivers for the virtual machine OS that support the actual hardware or does it use the existing Vista drivers?

I don't know about Vista as a guest, haven't done that one yet. But in general, the hardware is virtualized by the host VMware software, so that the guest OS only sees what it is shown by VMware's layer.

There's a "VMware Tools" package that installs into the guest OS that takes care of a lot of handy things like dynamic resizing of the desktop space, etc.

> I'm excited. Perhaps I can continue to use some of my old engineering tools without rewriting them all.

That's a good thought. I'm a happy VMware customer, but as others have pointed out, there are competing products worth checking out too.

29 posted on 08/14/2007 3:35:50 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: ShadowAce

I run a virtual Windows 2000 Pro installation using VirtualBox on my Dell Latitude laptop, with Mepis Linux as the host OS.


30 posted on 08/14/2007 3:37:00 PM PDT by shorty_harris
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To: TChris
Virtualization has nothing to do with Dell, per se. Everyone is doing virtualization, or rather, can, since it's a software thing.

It can be either. Or if you prefer software fine, but even the microcode in the CPU is a form of software, just hard coded into the chip. In that same light, they are working on Virtualization that is in the hardware. In fact some of VM's offerings actually require specific CPU instruction sets to properly work. If your CPU doesn't, you're out of luck.

I suspect what Dell is offering is a combination of both. Intel's optimized VM chips with the appropriate software.

31 posted on 08/14/2007 3:37:43 PM PDT by AFreeBird (Will NOT vote for Rudy. <--- notice the period)
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To: Reeses
Cygwin: don't leave /home without it.

Heh, I'm not a huge fan of Cygwin, but I have to admit - that's pretty funny.
32 posted on 08/14/2007 3:38:03 PM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: dayglored
There's a "VMware Tools" package that installs into the guest OS that takes care of a lot of handy things like dynamic resizing of the desktop space, etc.

Oh yeah. I think installing VMWare Tools is the only way you can get past the default 10mbps NIC drivers also...
33 posted on 08/14/2007 3:41:31 PM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: taxcontrol
> I tend to see VMware in business applications where the MANAGEMENT of the OS instances is the primary concern for things like business continuity, provisioning etc. I tend to see XEN where the PERFORMANCE of the OS instance is the primary concern or where there are limited funds for the virtualization software. Mostly schools and medium sized business.

Could be. I'm using VMware both as an individual, and as the System Admin for a small (<100 users) company where VMs are running on our servers and on our users' notebooks. I'm aware that there are big companies doing huge VM hosting applications; that's not my bag at present.

34 posted on 08/14/2007 3:44:08 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: Red Badger
And other companies computers cannot do this? Seems unlikely.......

Indeed. Macs have done it for at least 15 years.
I used a PowerPC running SoftWindows for 68k running an Apple II emulator program for MS DOS in 1994 (just for the heck of it).

35 posted on 08/14/2007 3:45:24 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: DB

Same here. I found that all my very old applications will run on Vista and all my old MS aplications will run. Just need to check the compatibility box to XP.

What I’m having trouble with are licensed technical applications written in the last 3 years. The program installs, but won’t register/license itself correctly. The companies won’t provide a simple patch and require buying an upgrade. I guess I don’t blame them for wanting to make money off of this.

I do however really, really like Vista.


36 posted on 08/14/2007 3:45:53 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: dayglored

Don’t let the consultants fool you. Doing a 6,000+ application, storage and server optimization is no walk in the park. It takes a LOT of expertise and experience to make it happen without a disaster.

... Contrary to what I hear all the sales people say ....


37 posted on 08/14/2007 3:47:22 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: awaken2spirit
Check out Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. (a Microsoft freebie). You can run multiple vitrtual OS’s under this including W2K, XP, W2k Server, W2K3 Server, Vista, various flavors of Linix, etc.

I used that a lot too, and liked it, until I started using VMWare. Then I realized this is one of those cases where you get what you pay for. VMWare lets the guest have access to more than one processor/core, lets you run applications on the guest without the rest of the OS screen showing (looks like I have a Windows app running in OS X), emulates DirectX (8.1, but expect it to improve), can support 64-bit guests, and can give up to 8 GB of RAM to the guest (VPC max is 3.6).

It is certified to run all Windows versions down to 3.1, DOS, all major Linux distributions, Solaris and BSD. Virtual PC only officially supports Windows 98 and later, and OS/2. You can run others and Linux, but don't ask for help if it doesn't work. You can't even try to virtualize Home Basic or Premium because VirtualPC checks for that.

And it was only $60 ($190 for the Windows version). I'd suggest VMWare if you're doing anything more than playing around.

38 posted on 08/14/2007 3:48:31 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: ShadowAce
Dell is developing consumer PCs that can run multiple versions of Microsoft's Windows and Linux software at the same time.

In other news, manufacturers developing shovels that will work on dirt, gravel, or both simultaneously!

39 posted on 08/14/2007 3:57:04 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: dayglored

What do you mean, “They had to”? Did the government or someone make them do so?


40 posted on 08/14/2007 4:01:02 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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