Posted on 07/23/2007 6:42:58 AM PDT by GeorgiaDawg32
At this point I'm sure that I don't have to do to much to bring you up to speed on Michael Vick and his latest troubles. A federal grand jury has indicted Vick on charges related to dog fighting. That may be just the beginning. The State of Virginia has yet to be heard from, and as I understand it mere ownership of property on which dog fights are held is a felony under Virginia law. Just one felony conviction and Vick is through with professional football in this country.
Let's put this "innocent until proven guilty" nonsense to rest right here at the beginning. When you kill someone you are a killer. If you do so in violation of the law; if it is not in self defense, for instance, you are a murderer. A person who kills a girlfriend because she merely wants out of the relationship is a murderer as soon as his victim's heart stops beating .. you don't have to wait for a jury to come in with a verdict.
So, where does this "innocent until proven guilty" stuff come in? The presumption of innocence is, in my view, a limitation that is primarily place on government. Generally speaking, only government can use force – deadly force – to deprive you of your property, your liberty or your life. If the government is going to do so as punishment for the commission of a crime, then the government must afford you your constitutional rights and prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It is the government, then, that must consider you to be innocent until otherwise proven. After the act, the rapist is only innocent in the eyes of government. The victim views him quite differently.
O.J. Simpson is a murderer. There is not one rational-thinking American familiar with knowledge of the facts of his case who honestly believes otherwise. A renegade jury failed to convict him however, so the government cannot punish him for his butchery. If O.J. objects to my characterization of him as a murderer he has civil remedies he can pursue. I, however, am powerless to punish him for the slaughter of his wife and Ron Goldman.
Now .. back to Vick. Personally, I have no doubt that he knew of and was a willing and eager participant in this blood "sport" of dog fighting. I'm an animal lover. I particularly love dogs. I would have no problem whatsoever seeing him serve some time in jail for his crime. I believe that people can be judged by how they treat animals. If what they allege about Michael Vick is true then he is completely lacking any sense of morality and human decency. Jail might be too good for him. Better to baste him in steak sauce and throw him into a cage full of the very dogs he so loved to brutalize.
What should the Falcons do with Vick? Totally their choice. They have a contract with this thug that would allow them to fire him on the spot. I'm not Arthur Blank and I have no idea what it would feel like to invest tens of millions of dollars in someone only to have them turn out to be such a miserable person and a complete embarrassment to the entire organization off-field. How do you explain to Vick's teammates that their season is about to be negatively affected because of these indictments? What do you say when they cry "He hasn't been convicted yet!" Perhaps if Blank and the Falcons had not invested so much time, effort and money into protecting Michael Vick from his own persona over the years things might not have come to this. But Vick was a jock .. a hero .. a prized gladiator. He generated massive amounts of revenue, not only for the team, but for the league ... and was thus entitled to treatment that would insulate him from his own repugnant actions.
If someone in a position of authority had smacked him down a few years ago, the team might not be going through this today.
As I said, the Falcons can do with Vick as they please. If he's convicted of a felony we should expect the NFL to follow the rules they've set and send him packing. We'll see. But I, as a fan, have my own choices to make, and my choice will be to have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Falcons as long as this thug is wearing their uniform. As long as Michael Vick is part of the organization, the organization, for me, ceases to exist. My wife is from Jacksonville, so I'm now officially a Jaguars fan.
Now ... let's address the race angle. I've been reading some of the blogs out there, and I did have a chance to listen to some sports talk radio over the weekend. What I've read and heard is entirely predictable. Everyone is out to get Michael Vick because he's black. The whole investigation is racially based.
This isn't about race. It's about culture. Black urban culture, to be more precise. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that organized dogfighting has increased by well over 300% since 1992. In many cases the dogfighting takes place in conjunction with drug dealing. The director of the Capital Area Humane Society in Ohio told the Cincinnati Inquirer ""Dogfighting is a family event, often held in a large warehouse. Children watch and there can be concession stands at one end, gambling somewhere else, and over in this corner they'll be selling cocaine and crack."
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you that dogfighting has been glorified in rap music. DMX and Snoop Dog have promoted the practice in their "music" videos.
Eileen Lou-Harrist wrote "In recent years, pit bull terriers have become a macho accessory in urban culture, where kids are attracted to the animals' reputation as inherently mean dogs. Add the hard-edged glamour of the dogfight—the gambling, drugs and weapons; the illegality; the 'fight 'til you die' credo—and dogfighting flourishes in places where cultivating a tough reputation is often paramount to survival." Now is Lou-Harrist describing any sort of a racial characteristic with those words? Hardly. She's describing a culture; urban street culture. Gangsta culture. So for all of you out there who will try to make this whole Michael Vick affair into a racial issue, put a sock in it. We're talking culture here, not race; a violent, immoral and cruel culture that promotes violence and disrespect for common decency and the law; a culture now vividly represented by Michael Vick.
I'm told that if you visit animal rescue shelters in many urban areas you'll find that over 60% of the dogs there are pit bulls or some variation. Slam a few of these people in jail for some extended sentences and let's see how quickly that changes.
On this point, I agree with your comments, and Boortz’. Just because the governmental legal system has to consider him innocent until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, doesn’t mean that society has to be blind to common sense as well.
Uncivilized people come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Dog fighting may have been given up by civilized society, but that doesn’t preclude a particular race from said uncivilized behavior. There are plenty of white people who still fight dogs, as there are black, brown and any other color of human being in between.
See my post at #57.
You're reinforcing his point -- it's the culture, not the race. There are many, many -- almost certainly the majority -- of blacks who do NOT participate in this culture. Therefore, criticizing the culture cannot be racist.
Who cares?
He fails miserably at being a human being.
If Vick is not banned from football, I will never watch another game. Never.
Any institution which allows people like this in their ranks is no institution I want any part of.
And I will go out of my way to not buy from any of the sponsors of the game.
This guy is a monster. People are concerned with “his rights” or how this will affect the game of football. What about the dead dogs? I hear nary a word on their behalf.
Pathetic.
I agree with DocH. The government HAS to presume a suspect is innocent until proven guilty, but we as individuals can judge him based on our own beliefs. In extreme cases, I might consider a guy guilty even after he was declared innocent.
For example, the criminal court system said that O.J. Simpson is innocent of murdering his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. But I believe he is guilty.
That’s news to me. I thought the NFLPA had a stronger union than that. Vick should be afforded due process as his contract and the players’ union agreement allow.
Yes, fans may boo him every time he steps on the field.
They should not throw anything at him though.
I agree with you. The Falcons are not only stupid but highly insensitive if they don’t cut him.
False dilemma, but given those two, I take the former option.
So you cannot “see any reason” to ban dogfighting, ok. That’s the problem with you libertarians - you talk a lot but when evil is being done you can always be counted on to sit in the sidelines with your arms folded. Hell, even Boortz had to break with your former leader (Harry Browne) because he saw no real Islamofascist threat.
What’s your justification for the government getting involved in dogfighting? Which clause of the Constitution authorizes it? How is it consistent with the proper purpose of government?
Looks like they pulled the video. Terence Moore is probably the columnist you’re referring to. His 23 Jul column is up and its pretty strong on kicking Vick to the curb...and beyond.
Dont paint with too wide a brush...there are many blacks ready to join the conservative ranks if we educate and promote conservative values in an attractive way. The trouble with conservatism today is we have NO major statesmen who know how to communicate like Reagan did.
Don’t give up on winning over African-Americans....the Dems have snookered them greatly. We must win them over to conservatism where true freedoms prevail
This could have been posted 30 years ago, or 25, or 20...
Every second spent trying to bring blacks into the party is a second wasted. It’s time they come to us on their own. It’s like when you’re trying to date a girl and giving her a lot of attention and she could care less, start ignoring her and she wonders, what’s so great about him that he’s ignoring me?
We need to stop giving star athletes (professional or collegiate) free passes when it comes to breaking the law. Michael Vick is the product of years of coaches, teachers and counselors looking the other way.
Vick believes in torturing dogs. Vick is monster.
Hillary believes in torturing the unborn. Hillary is a ?.
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