Posted on 06/04/2007 11:35:52 AM PDT by cryptical
At a recent backyard barbecue in Miami's Upper Eastside, a group of middle-age, middle-class folks tamely sipped berry cocktails and beers. Among them: a couple of lawyers, a couple of city administrators and an arts administrator. Somewhere between the skirt steak and the apple pie, somebody lit a joint and passed it around.
Nobody blinked. Even in mainstream, white-collar settings, smoking marijuana can be commonplace and unremarkable, like having a little wine with dinner.
Once a stamp of the arty, the marginal and the counterculture, today marijuana's popularity cuts across social boundaries. Yet several high-profile marijuana arrests have recently made headlines, highlighting the hazy double standard that exists around an illegal, potentially harmful drug that continues to encroach into the mainstream:
• In March, Lawrence Korda, 59, a Broward Circuit Court judge, was charged with openly smoking marijuana in a park in Hollywood. Korda completed a drug and alcohol program to erase the misdemeanor charge, and must take monthly random drug tests for six months and perform 25 hours of community service.
• Last month, Utpal Dighe, 31, a prosecutor in the Miami-Dade state attorney's office, was fired after police charged him with buying marijuana from a street dealer in Coconut Grove.
• Also last month, Ricky Williams, 30, erstwhile superstar running back for the Dolphins, probably ended his Miami career by testing positive for marijuana for the fifth time.
For good or ill, people from all walks smoke weed. In fact, 40.1 percent of all Americans 12 years old and up admit having tried marijuana at least once -- and 6 percent acknowledge having used it in the past month, federal drug surveys show. The FBI says 786,500 people were arrested for it in 2005, the latest figures available.
One group at least modestly turning away from marijuana is middle- and high-schoolers, ages 12 to 17. The percentage who have used pot at least once dropped from more than 20 percent in 2000 to about 17 percent in 2005, federal researchers say.
''I don't know if more people are smoking or more people are admitting it,'' said Betsy Wise, a Miami stand-up comic. Wise recently started to freelance for a New York ad agency. She confided in a co-worker that a friend was delivering pot brownies to the office -- and told him to help himself.
''When I got to the agency, all but a few of the brownies were gone,'' Wise said. ``Pretty much everyone partook, right in the office. They all greeted me with smiles. I thought that was remarkable. I would have expected maybe one or two people would have been simpatico.''
More and more, weed is cropping up in the popular culture. It isn't just the domain of hip-hop records with parental-guidance labels. On cable-TV shows like Six Feet Under,The Sopranos,Entourage and The L Word, characters have sparked up casually, the way they might sip merlot, without their marijuana use being part of any plot development or morality tale.
And it isn't just cable. On ABC's Brothers & Sisters, Sally Field's character gets high. The kids on That '70s Show often emerged from clouds of funny smoke.
GOING UPSCALE
''I think there is more of a laissez-faire attitude these days about smoking pot,'' said Jenji Kohan, creator of Showtime's Weeds, about a mother who sells marijuana to make ends meet after her husband dies unexpectedly. 'One of the things that I find interesting is that there are boutique farms that are really into their strains. It reminds me of when wine started to become really popular and people started talking about this vine and that grape. Marijuana has become more upscale. In L.A., dealers have full menus of `unique teas.' ''
Not that marijuana use is a function of wealth.
For $20 on the street, a buyer can score one-eighth ounce of low-grade marijuana from Mexico, Belize or Jamaica -- enough for four or five cigarettes. For $800, the connoisseur can acquire an ounce of exotic, extra-potent marijuana grown from modern hybrids in hydroponic labs or special soil indoors in ''grow-houses'' from Pompano Beach to Coral Gables, said James Hall, director of the Center for the Study and Prevention of Substance Abuse at Nova Southeastern University.
''It's like wine; you can buy an expensive one or you can buy the jug stuff,'' Hall said.
The truth is, for all of the marijuana possession arrests, police often look the other way, or let smokers go with friendly warnings.
At a Snoop Dogg concert at a Fort Lauderdale club a while back, a uniformed officer stood by unflinchingly as Snoop, and dozens in the audience, sent up telltale clouds.
''It's selective enforcement,'' said Miami musician Todd Thompson, who doesn't have a problem admitting that he gets high. ``At Langerado [a Broward outdoor music festival], there was smoking going on everywhere. I wouldn't do it in front of a cop, just in case. But cops don't always do something about a little marijuana smoke.''
Marijuana laws are a mishmash among the 50 states. It isn't entirely legal anywhere, but 12 states have at least partly decriminalized it, to the point that in Alaska there is no penalty for possessing an ounce or less at home.
In Florida, possession of 20 grams or less -- 28 grams would be an ounce -- is a misdemeanor punishable by a year in jail and/or a $1,000 fine; having more than 20 grams is a felony worth five years and/or a $5,000 fine.
Over the decades, debate about whether marijuana should be legalized has remained lively.
Said Howard Finkelstein, Broward County public defender and legal guru of the ''Help Me Howard'' segment on WSVN-Fox 7: 'We're making war on our own people. We take good fathers and lawyers and doctors and wives and make them outlaws. We're playing a stupid and harmful game of `gotcha.' ''
Some support for legalization comes from the belief that it's not dangerous to health, says Dr. J. Bryan Page, professor of anthropology and psychiatry and an expert on substance abuse in the University of Miami Department of Psychiatry.
''A student I knew claimed to be part of a group who all had grade-point averages over 3.6 who were very regular users,'' he said. 'She wanted me to study them to counter all the `Just say no' stuff.''
White House drug czar John Walters, not surprisingly, sees it differently. In April, his office released an analysis from the University of Mississippi's Potency Monitoring Project that said the level of THC -- the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana -- has more than doubled since 1983, from 4 percent to 8.5 percent.
`WAKE-UP CALL'
''This new report serves as a wake-up call for parents who may still hold outdated notions about the harms of marijuana,'' his announcement said.
The increased potency is from the exotic new hybrids and sophisticated indoor growing techniques, says Nova Southeastern's Hall.
Marijuana-related emergency-room visits increased from 45,000 in 1995 to 119,000 in 2002, the most recent comparison available, federal drug officials say.
Added Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse: ``Science has shown that marijuana can produce adverse physical, mental, emotional and behavioral changes, and -- contrary to popular belief -- it can be addictive.''
Norman Kent, a Fort Lauderdale lawyer and board member of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, scoffed: ``More people died last year from eating spinach than smoking pot.''
Bennett based his "more than twice" figure on a 1988 University of Alaska study whose author specifically stated that "because there are so many variables" his study should not be used to argue for or against legalization. Indeed, when Oregon, Maine, and California decriminalized personal possession, cannabis use did not go up. Northern aboriginal communities have always had higher rates of alcohol and drug abuse than the national average and during the years of Alaskan decriminalization alcohol consumption went down. The 1988 usage numbers are self-reported, meaning that after 13 years of decriminalization more Alaskan teenagers felt comfortable discussing their cannabis use than teenagers in more prohibitive states. No surprise there.
Well, duh.
But it's the closest I can get, and the prices are so close to black market it might as well remain illegal. Needless to say, you cannot produce any evidence that the price would drop dramatically if legalized.
Must be nice to just sit there and simply criticize.
Decriminalized is not legalized. Or did you think it means the same thing?
"Northern aboriginal communities have always had higher rates of alcohol and drug abuse than the national average"
So Alaskan teens are "northern aboriginals"? And teens from Texas are what, southern aboriginals?
According to the 2000 SAMHSA survey, the national teen (12-17) average was 7.24%. Use by Alaskan teen aboriginals was 8.65%.
However, use by Colorado teen aboriginals was 10.8%, Delaware teen aboriginals was 11.89%, and Massachusetts teen aboriginals was 12.35%.
Please take your racist and biased article from "cannabisculture.com" and stick it.
"The 1988 usage numbers are self-reported, meaning that after 13 years of decriminalization more Alaskan teenagers felt comfortable discussing their cannabis use than teenagers in more prohibitive states."
You DO think decriminalization is the same as legalization. Marijuana use (by adults, at home, less than 4 ounces) was LEGALIZED in Alaska. No arrest, no charge, no trial, no penalty, no record, no stigma. Legal.
Still illegal for teens, however, so why they would feel any more comfortable discussing it is a mystery to me. And all the surveys are, by definition, self-reported. You ask a teen, anonymously of course, if he has smoked marijuana at least once in the last 30 days and he says yes or no.
But all teens lie, right? Lie when they say they use it, or lie when they say they don't? Tell me which one, cryptical.
So you don't disagree with this statement. Thanks for playing.
If it came from your racist and biased website, I don't even believe the statement, much less agree or disagree with it.
I'm not criticizing you, I'm debating with you, and so far I think I have been a lot more mature than most of the pro-legalization crowd on this site. And I think we can both agree that there is no way to know for sure how much marijuana would cost if it was totally legalized. But I still think that marijuana prices would fall considerably. After all, the (mostly) legal drug Salvia divinorum only costs $9.99 an ounce, Kratom only costs $8.99 an ounce, half a pound of Kava Kava only costs $14.99, and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds only cost $5.99 for 50 of them. Why should marijuana be any different? And just out of curiosity, is there any reason you oppose marijuana use so much?
It shouldn't. I'm simply saying it would. And I gave my reasons. And I gave my examples (using marijuana).
"And just out of curiosity, is there any reason you oppose marijuana use so much?"
You mean other than because its use is illegal, immoral, selfish, reckless, and sets a bad example?
Can't refute it, so you go for the ad-hominem. That's ok, stick with your ONDCP talking points if that's the best you can do.
Like you wouldn't say anything if I cited the ONDCP website to support one of my points.
"whose author specifically stated that "because there are so many variables" his study should not be used to argue for or against legalization."
You're acting as though he said, "because there are so many variables" his study should not be used. He doesn't want his federally funded study to be a political football -- where will he get his next grant?
But enough people believed the study to overwhelmingly pass a public referendum shortly after it came out.
Well alcohol and tobacco are the same way except for the fact that they are legal, but you have heard that before. And I forgot to mention that the coffeeshops in Amsterdam have high prices largely because they are tourist traps. The vast majority of people who visit them are not Dutch.
I don't consider tobacco to be in the same league.
Alcohol can be, and is, consumed responsibly by the vast majority of people for a variety of reasons. It is accepted as part of our culture and history. Alcohol IS the same as marijuana when alcohol is used for the purpose of getting high -- but I consider that abuse, not use.
And before you say it, no -- when an individual is willing to break the law, pay $200 an ounce for a product that's not even worth $2, risk arrest, legal costs, fines and imprisonment, risk losing his job, his car, his house, his family, his health, or his standing in the community -- he's not doing it "to relax after work". He's doing it to get high.
Do the Dutch pay lower prices? Where do they get their pot?
So tobacco is ok just because you think it is ok? You are aware that it is the most addictive drug known to man, and that it is responsible for many diseases don't you? And before you say tobacco doesn't get you high, if you do some research you will find that at high enough doses it acts as a hallucinogen. And if marijuana was legal would you consider using it to be ok?
I never said it was OK. I said it wasn't in the same league. It is not a psychotropic drug.
"And if marijuana was legal would you consider using it to be ok?"
Of course not. Are you one of those who think that because something is legal it's OK to do? Am I not allowed to take offense, or must I tolerate, nay accept, the use because it's legal?
I did a search for weed images and found this site, Weedseedshop.
They have some pics of some pretty flowers.
No, I was just wondering if you think marijuana is bad because it is illegal, and it is illegal because it is bad.
An oft-repeated mantra on these threads.
You asked me to tell you why I opposed marijuana. I answered that it was illegal, immoral, selfish, reckless, and sets a bad example.
Now, armed with that specific information from me, why are you persisting with "I was just wondering if you think marijuana is bad because it is illegal"?
Whatever. Why should we legalize marijuana? Better yet, why should we legalize just marijuana, leaving all other drugs (hard, soft, prescription) regulated?
I believe we should legalize marijuana because it is not nearly as harmful as most other drugs, legal or illegal. The benefits that society gets from marijuana being illegal are far outweighed by the costs of the War on Drugs. On the thread http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1815890/posts someone mentioned a girl being found guilty of possession because a marijuana cigarette was found hidden in a bus seat she was seated in. And the argument that the government should ban it because it is bad for you is what got us anti-tobacco laws, seatbelt laws, and anti-transfat laws, which I am sure you don't agree with. Just because something is bad does not mean it should be illegal.
Well, now you're setting a new standard, harm, and using that as your benchmark. There are many reasons to regulate a particular drug, other than direct harm. Besides, taken in the proper dosage, all recreational drugs are not harmful.
"The benefits that society gets from marijuana being illegal are far outweighed by the costs of the War on Drugs."
Ask yourself the question, "If marijuana was legal and regulated (like alcohol), would we close any prisons, jails or courtrooms? Fire any police officers, guards, judges, or prosecutors? Would the budget of the DEA be cut?" I think we agree there'll be no monetary gains.
Now, are you referring to other "costs" like less arrests, less people in prison, less no-knocks, less asset forfeitures? Sure. Those would be reduced. We can accomplish similar results by legalizing anything -- prostitution, gambling, pornography, etc. -- assuming that was the goal.
Now, what about the increased societal costs from legalizing drugs? That part is always glossed over for some reason.
"someone mentioned a girl being found guilty of possession because a marijuana cigarette was found hidden in a bus seat she was seated in."
She was a high school student on a school bus, so immediately there are reduced fourth amendment rights. Secondly, doesn't it seem odd to you that the folds of her particular bus seat would be searched at random, AND that they would find something, AND it would be something illegal? I'm guessing we don't have the complete story here.
"And the argument that the government should ban it because it is bad for you"
Obviously that can't be the sole criterion. "The people" (not the government) don't want it legal. If they did, it would be legal.
It would be equally heavy-handed for the government to tell the majority that they cannot constitutionally regulate something considered to be counter-productive to a functioning society. That they must live with all drugs being legal, legalized gambling, legalized prostitution, and legalized porn since these activities (among consenting adults) "harm" no one.
Why can't my girlfriend and I make love in a public park at noon? We're (obviously) minding our own business, and we're not harming anyone. When put to the test, the Libertarian philosophy of limiting laws to behavior which only harms others rapidly falls apart. No government or society in the history of the world has ever restricted their laws that way -- even our own. It's a nice theory though.
Comparing making love in a public park to marijuana smoking is like comparing apples and oranges. As long as someone smokes marijuana in their own home they are not harming you. Many people object to alcohol use, which I believe is why the government says you can't drink in a public place. You either have to do it in a place with the proper liquor license or in your own home.
Now, what about the increased societal costs from legalizing drugs? That part is always glossed over for some reason.
Well if we made drugs legal and regulated people would not have to worry (at least not so much) about drugs being cut with something dangerous, and they would not have to support gangs to get their fix. Yes I know the gangs would not go away overnight, but in the long run it would reduce the number of people who choose a life of crime once getting easy money from drugs is not an option. I also think that the government should at least allow people to grow poppies or the coca plant, the use of the plants themselves is a lot less harmful than the use of the heroin or cocaine that is obtained from the plants by drug cartels because they are less bulky and easier to smuggle.
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