Posted on 05/16/2007 5:43:06 AM PDT by Zakeet
Linus Torvalds has hit back at Microsoft's claims that it holds 42 patents that are infringed by the Linux kernel.
Torvalds, the leader of the project to create the Linux kernel, was contemptuous of Microsoft's claims and has asked Redmond to name the infringements so that their veracity can be challenged and workarounds found.
"Naming them would either make it clear that Linux is not infringing at all (which is quite possible, especially if the patents are bad), or would make it possible to avoid infringing by coding around whatever silly thing they claim," he said in an email exchange with Information Week.
"So the whole 'We have a list and we're not telling you' should tell you something. Don't you think that if Microsoft actually had some really foolproof patent, they'd just tell us and go, 'nyaah, nyaah, nyaah!'?"
Torvalds added that Microsoft might have patent problems of its own if the company was to expose its software to public scrutiny in the same way as Linux.
He said that operating system procedures have not changed much since the 1960s, and many companies, including IBM, have patents of which Microsoft could well find itself in breach.
Torvalds was sanguine over the possibility of legal action and believes it unlikely that anyone would get sued.
"Microsoft would have to name the patents then, and they are probably happier with the [fear, uncertainty, doubt] than with any lawsuit," he predicted.
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He spends a significant part of his time giving strategic advice to clients of the firm.
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His leadership in furthering all aspects of the standard setting infrastructure, from traditional accredited organizations, to consortia, to open source projects, is widely recognized. In 2005 he was elected to the Boards of Directors of ANSI and the Free Standards Group (FSG), and in 2007 to the Board of Directors of the Linux Foundation.
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He is a Lawyer...................
See post above.....
I'm not a lawyer, but I've listened to a lot of them on this subject, so I'm passing it along. First, there is the legal statute of limitations, and that messes with laches being applied in certain circumstances, since laches is in a way a common law form of a statute of limitations. Some decisions have actually applied laches when the statute of limitations hasn't run out yet. There's a separation of powers issue going on with this, normally the statute of limitations wins, but sometimes plaintiffs are just so dishonest that the judge wants to apply laches even earlier.
But aside from that issue, not they don't have to. But not doing so may hurt them in court to some extent. Examples (you can Google):
Chirco v. Crosswind Cmtys: Company built a building, plaintiff knew it infringed on their architectural design before construction, but didn't bring suit until after it was built. They won damages. They also wanted the buildings destroyed but were denied that because they could have prevented their construction by bringing suit earlier.
Chattanoga Manufacturing v. Nike and Jordan: Maker of apparel under the "Jordan" trademark sues Nike over their Michael Jordan line. Loses due to laches, Nike started using it in '84, and they didn't sue until '99. The court decided they knew of Nike's campaign maybe in '85 and no later than '90, and there was no excuse to wait at least nine years before bringing suit.
Laches has also been used successfully against the notorious inventor of submarine patents, Jerome Lemelson. He would wait years until after others had actually made working technology resembling his broad paper patents, wait until the technology went into widespread use, and then sue. IIRC, Symbol Techologies (et. al.) v. Lemelson.
In this case a court might well tell Microsoft that it's not allowed any damages between the time of the sabre-rattling and disclosure of the actual patents, because Microsoft could have stopped those damages from occurring by disclosing the patents or filing suit and getting an injunction (in which they would have to disclose the patents). Sometimes a court has a hard time deciding when the plaintiff knew or should have known about the infringement in order to determine if laches applies (see Jordan above), but Microsoft just admitted to knowing, so the clock's ticking.
Basically, if what's happening doesn't seem fair due to a delay on the part of the plaintiff, then laches probably applies.
Judges also expect that the parties have previously tried to work out the issue and stop the infringement amicably before bringing a lawsuit. IBM had been in contact with Amazon for four years before IBM brought that patent lawsuit. Microsoft is obviously not trying to work out anything, only hanging FUD. However, I have no idea what the consequences of doing this are in court.
The concept of the Help Desk?
Because God knows MS customers need one...
L
Yep he's foreign national here known for his big mouth. When questioned about patent lawsuits in e-mail previously he said "just hire a hit man and whack the stupid git". His idolizers think it was cool of course, as you see he even has a couple of them here.
Your post 83 is spot on.
Thanks. I try to pay attention.
It must be hard posting anything about legal issues here. Do you have a disclaimer boilerplate made up ("This in no way constitutes legal advice...")?
What a boatload. Torvalds knows good and well he distibutes Microsoft patented disk format technology with every copy of Linux. To claim he doesn’t know of any patents he’s violating is ridiculous. To believe him is even more clueless than Torvalds claims to be himself.
It will be helpful to get educated on this subject. Microsofts stock has been dorment for years. Thanks for the links.
I see you're still trying to claim Apache = Linux, despite being corrected several times that Apache runs on all versions of Unix, and even on Windows for gosh sakes. How many more times before you finally admit you're wrong and quit trotting it out again? Looks like never.
He's from over in Eastern Europe somewhere, the son of some well known communists who studied in Moscow, who came up with this clone of the Unix operating systems that came from the US because he didn't want to pay for the US originals. His is only a part of the overall operating system, he got most off the rest from a radical leftist here in the US named Richard Stallman, known as "the father of free software" over here who wants all software to be free and hangs out in places like Cuba. Basically a bunch of foreigners and leftists who came together to write this O/S to take on Microsoft, Torvalds olways claiming his goal is "total world domination". All the communist countries around the globe have already standardized their governments on it and even pass laws requiring its use. You won't hear any of this from the lamestream media of course but it's all very easy to look up.
No, I sometimes post generally on legal issues but never give advice to people on their specific legal issues.
Interesting, are you a patent lawyer? AntiRepublican here took a severe beating the other day on another thread by a couple of guys claiming to be patent lawyers. Keep in mind he’s a very strong proponent of “copyleft” and free software for the world at large seems to be his primary motivation in life.
In this case I’d say Torvalds claim he doesn’t have a clue as to what Microsoft patents he’s violating is absurd, how could he still not know the Microsoft disk formats he’s been distributing around the world as part of Linux for years aren’t patented? He’s also on record saying you should quote “whack the guy” if ever challenged on patent infringement, and considering he’s a foreigner visting here in the US on a work visa I find his comments particularly disrespectful and vile. Ideally I’d like to see the US justice system crush him financially and ride him out of the country if he’s more intent on disrupting our capitalistic system than adapting to it.
No, I’m not a patent lawyer. I don’t really have a dog in this fight and had never heard of Torvalds until I read this thread. I use Windows and don’t really have an axe to grind with Microsoft, but I do think there are elements of bluff and intimindation in Microsoft’s stance on this issue and I respect Torvalds’ put up or shut up response.
Thank you very much, I appreciate a good honest post which we see so few of on this subject. So you have no concerns about a foreign national here, apparently flaunting his defiantness against one the most profitable and well-known companies in this country, as well as launching endless criticism of our existing legal system, all the while assisting technology transfers out of the country? Thanks again for your response.
No. MS should show its hand rather than making bald allegations.
as well as launching endless criticism of our existing legal system, all the while assisting technology transfers out of the country?
As I said, I don't know a thing about Torvalds other than what's in this thread, so I can't comment on that.
Thanks again, like I said I’d enjoy seeing the software cloner bumped right out of the country, and a resergence of Apple and other American companies instead of all these free foreign copies becoming popular. As it stands, the Chinese government and other communist or governments antagonistic to the US are allowed to download all these freeware copies of our existing products, which they use to power their government or even legally resell under a different name and not a dime back to the US.
One Unix software company already has a lawsuit against Linux, but it is becoming apparent from that trial that copyright isn’t sufficient protection and patents may be the best method of protecting software, especially when assaulted by foreign software that ignores software patents. I believe the US patent system, and our software companies, will survive this foreign and “copyleft” onslaught, but it is not surprising you haven’t heard of it, few have outside the tech industry have despite it’s incredible legal political implications. As an indication of the growing divide, the RNC runs on Windows, and the DNC runs on Linux.
Thanks again Golden Eagle
An ex-coworker/friend of mine does some filesystem work, requiring least tangential involvement with the kernel community. He has described Torvalds as a jerk (or words to those effect) on more than one occassion. Apparently the guy is also a control freak, to the point that people think it is detrimental to kernel.
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