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To: Bitter Bierce
"If critics think that 300 reduces and simplifies the meaning of Thermopylae into freedom versus tyranny, they should reread carefully ancient accounts and then blame Herodotus, Plutarch, and Diodorus — who long ago boasted that Greek freedom was on trial against Persian autocracy, free men in superior fashion dying for their liberty, their enslaved enemies being whipped to enslave others."

I'm no stranger to the use of the word "freedom" in history. Yet it was not used to describe freedom as we do today. For some Greeks it was close, but not for the Spartans.

Throughout history "Freedom" is used in reference to the people, not the individual, and that is what I pointed out. "Our freedom" is a royal "our" for most before 1776. As a people the Spartans were extremely independent and incredibly defensive of their sovereignty. As individuals, there was no true freedom in Sparta.

20 posted on 03/02/2007 4:39:40 PM PST by SampleMan (Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
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To: SampleMan
I'm no stranger to the use of the word "freedom" in history. Yet it was not used to describe freedom as we do today. For some Greeks it was close, but not for the Spartans.

I hear you loud and clear. Do you think it can correctly be said that King Leonidas, with his force of 300 Spartans and 700 Thespian volunteers, chose to stay behind fight and die at least in part to preserve a chance for victory by the Greek forces as a whole, some of whom enjoyed "individual freedom" in their city-states as we know it today?

The Wikipedia article cites J.B. Bury and Russell Meiggs, A History of Greece to the Death of Alexander the Great, 4th Revised Edition, Palgrave Macmillan (July 2000), page 271 for the following proposition: "Though they knew it meant their own deaths, they held their position and secured the retreat of the other Greek forces. The Persians succeeded in taking the pass but sustained heavy losses, extremely disproportionate to those of the Greeks. The fierce resistance of the Spartan-led army offered Athens the invaluable time to prepare for a naval battle that would come to determine the outcome of the war."

23 posted on 03/02/2007 5:03:40 PM PST by Bitter Bierce
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