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Like throwing a lighted cig out of a car window...you don't know whose lives you will effect....
1 posted on 12/08/2006 3:50:27 PM PST by paulat
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To: Rte66; M0sby; woodbutcher; BunnySlippers; cajungirl; Mjaye; Howlin


2 posted on 12/08/2006 3:54:14 PM PST by paulat (about)
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To: paulat

effect = affect


3 posted on 12/08/2006 3:55:03 PM PST by paulat (about)
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To: paulat

Then I guess they can't blame this on the internet mapping services. Tell the lawyers to go home now.


4 posted on 12/08/2006 3:58:43 PM PST by PeterFinn (B’fhearr Gaeilge briste na Béarla cliste.)
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To: paulat

I dislike Vandals very much. They wreck everything. They wreck their own bus stops and pay phones. It does not make sense at all.


5 posted on 12/08/2006 4:03:03 PM PST by GinaLolaB
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To: paulat

There seems to be a huge MSM effort to absolve this "hero" dad. My opinion is that he made a number of boneheaded mistakes that endangered his family and cost him his life. He is a classic case of a guy who didn't want to cut his losses (i.e. turn back) and instead wanted to improvise some elegant solution in a context of extreme uncertainty. Such behavior is not heroic whan one is responsible for two tiny children.


7 posted on 12/08/2006 4:15:41 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: paulat

I really have to wonder why that area was not searched the first day given that they knew the family was roughly in that area.


9 posted on 12/08/2006 4:28:42 PM PST by BunnySlippers (Never Forget / SAY YES TO RUDY !!!)
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To: paulat
The "vandals" were probably off road drivers or some other outdoor enthusiasts. I've been to many parks and trails where people think since they are taxpayers they have the right to go anywhere.

I'll bet they rarely think they could hurt anyone other than themselves. Like people that swim in off limits quarries and are drowned or injured and a rescue crew arrives and loses one of their own trying to save the law breakers life.

Whole story is just so sad.

10 posted on 12/08/2006 4:32:05 PM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: paulat

Any way you figure it California lost one of the very few real men it had left.
His actions were that of a man.
He stood for his family.
He earned the TITLE; of MAN
He did it as too few would these days.


37 posted on 12/08/2006 7:10:01 PM PST by warriorfor honor (With out us they die)
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To: All
Something new I just saw...James would probably review it....

http://recco.com/startsida/index.asp

Of course...these guys had no idea that they were in danger....but these chips look interesting!

42 posted on 12/08/2006 7:55:50 PM PST by paulat (about)
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To: paulat
I have worked and traveled in wilderness areas all over the world, for many years. I am still alive because I took the trouble to learn survival skills and strategies *before* I needed them, and I never left my safety envelope. Survival skills and strategies I define as skills that *successfully* keep me and others alive. My family is fine because I never put them in danger. It is negligent to put one's family in danger and place excessive trust in the social safety net, gates, cell phones, GPS, SRT, park rangers, and so on.

The only CERTAIN way you can get out of trouble in the wild is to be able to be CERTAIN to rely on your own resources and skills to do it.

Overpreparation will make you tired and poorer by virtue of the added expense. But underpreparation puts you at risk and may get you or your loved ones injured or killed. Prepare by packing and by learning. Learn by studying theory and following the experiences of others-- before you go yourself.

Going outside your safety envelope puts you and others (SRT) in danger. Most accidents in the wilderness areas I travel are accidents in judgement, lack of skills, and lack of preparation-- all easily preventable. Many times, judgement errors are due to overconfidence.

Mr. Kim was by all accounts intelligent and what contemporary society considers both well educated and well prepared. Since Mr. Kim is now deceased, and posts of many to CNET and other places that he made mistakes are censored or belittled, I believe that the larger problem is therefore somewhere within contemporary society. What is wrong?

I believe the problem is that our schools do not teach students rudimentary critical thinking necessary for good judgement, along with essential survival skills. Instead, students are told they can learn in a constructivist manner from each other and from direct experience, and conducting themselves in such manner, are showered with praise to raise their self-esteem.

Add to this idiot TV shows, idiot movies and idiot newsmedia which oversimplify situations for entertainment value to the gullible (who are left believing that they are now sufficiently informed to do the stunts that are portrayed in those shows).

It is this self-esteem which is a major killer in the wilderness. People don't like to be told they don't know enough, they don't have enough experience, they aren't prepared enough. They are not used to hearing that. But they go into the wilderness anyway, and often, as a result, they are injured or they die before someone can rescue them from the dangerous consequences of their own poor judgement.

(I recommend reading back issues of "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" for persons seriously interested in learning from the mistakes of others.)

One more thing-- knowledge, skills, and strategy are more important than any equipment, because sometimes circumstances beyond your control strip you of your provisions, but you still have to survive.

Like Santayana, I think it is better to learn from history than to worry about whether someone is a hero or not, lest so much time is spent showering a deceased wilderness victim with more praise but ignoring the very valid (and more important) lesson of his experience.

57 posted on 12/09/2006 12:11:06 PM PST by SteveH (First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.)
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To: paulat

Found in a creek--probably in the throes of hypothermia (which brings about a sensation of being overheated) and he was trying to cool off. Victims of "freezing to death" are often found naked.


63 posted on 12/09/2006 12:56:06 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: paulat; pandoraou812
an update to your thread...........looks like no 'vandals' involved.

Gate to road Kims used never locked, BLM says

Federal workers failed to lock the gate that was supposed to block the logging road that led James Kim to his death last week -- a different story than has been told since his death and his family's rescue.

The U.S. Bureau of Land Management was supposed to lock the gate to the spur road, known only as 34-8-36, on Nov. 1. The winter gate is meant to stop people from turning off Bear Camp Road, which cuts through the rugged Siskiyou National Forest to the Oregon Coast.

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/..._12.html#215338
93 posted on 12/14/2006 6:33:07 AM PST by txdoda (Voters to Gov't .......Re: post 9-11 Border Security....... ""The results are Unacceptable."")
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