Nifong to give up more documents to defense (DukeLax)

Durham Herald-Sun ^ | October 27, 2006 | John Stevenson

[PghBaldy]

How did I miss that he didn't talk to accuser? Ugh. Maybe the Jim "Chiquita" Webb issue has clouded my mind.

[Locomotive Breath]

Since I was there as an undergrad Durham is both more and less of a dump. Back then it was a solid working class town and the tobacco industry provided good jobs. Those jobs went away and as the Durham natives who counted on those jobs sunk further and further into relative poverty there was an influx of highly paid professionals to take the high-tech jobs that have been created in the last 25 years. The relative decrepitude of "old" Durham is only emphasized by the relative wealth of "new" Durham.

Some (not all - SOME) of the northerners, and some from other parts of the country as well, including some of the students with whom I was associated all those years ago lacked a certain quality, highly valued in the south, known as tact. They were quite vocal about Durham's obvious deficiencies and rubbed everyone the wrong way including me. The New York wise guy just doesn't play well in Durham. I understand that nothing is really meant by it, and that said Yankee is expecting ridicule in return, but in Durham it still rankles to be ridiculed by a carpetbagger.

Doesn't mean the Duke lax 3 should go to prison for 30 years, nor does it mean RS, CF and DE possess those unlikable qualities. But I'll bet every Durhamite has had, at one time or another, an unfortunate encounter with an out-of-towner. All it takes is one incident to set some people's opinions forever.

[muawiyah]

I went through the place over 45 years ago and it was a dump even then. Didn't take the death of "Big Tobacco" to push it over the edge.

On the other hand this business of inventing Jewish names for the supposed rapists and then selecting the Yankees to take the fall suggests there's a part of Durham my GGGrandfather forgot to burn, and they've been waiting for revenge.

Gad, is Nifong so stupid he thinks we don't notice this stuff?

[ltc8k6]

He's the lead investigator and he hasn't spoken to the accuser or the defendants, and he believes the accuser.

[I want to know]

I played the video on WRAL and the reporter said the records were from UNC hospital. Wasn't there some prior speculation that Crystal might have gone to UNC hospital a day or two after the alleged rape?

[JamesP81]

But there should be a way to sue them for it in extreme cases like this.

It's called Prosecutorial Abuse. And it never gets enforced. That's why there needs to be a statute forcing the state to pay attorney's fees to someone that they accused and were wrong about. And by wrong about, that means a not guilty verdict, regardless of the prevailing opinion in news or why the verdict was returned, technicalities or not. A uniform standard like this is the only way that the state will be brought to heel for abuses. Anything short is too easy to weasel out of. You can't set up a law that only allows lawsuits in 'extreme cases' because that's a vague term. Once that law is in effect, then there won't be any such thing as extreme cases anymore.

Everybody seems really gung ho to put in a loser pays system for civil law; I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work the same with criminal law.

[JamesP81]

I doubt it. He seems like the type that hates rednecks.

I agree: this is more of a rich vs poor, white vs black thing than a north vs south thing.

[SarahUSC]

I think the Jewish names thing is stretching it. Is "Bret" a Jewish name? And there are plenty of non-Jews named Matt and Adam. I don't think any of the actual guys on the team named Bret, Matt and Adam are Jewish.

On the other hand, Crystal did manage to pick Reade Seligmann, who is Jewish, as one of her alleged attackers. But then she also picked an obviously Irish Catholic guy - Collin Finnerty, and Dave Evans who seems to be your standard Anglo-Saxon type.

[Neverforget01]

Having grown up in NY, and having lived in NJ for 17 years, I know how disliked we are. For the most part, we're pretty thick skinned about it (the Jersey jokes do get old).

That being said, there is no question that a large number of college students come from the Northeast. It sure makes a parent question whether or not to send Johnny or Jane south. Who knows, maybe Duke will be better off and everyone will be happier?

[writmeister]

Well see, that's the key to his universal appeal. He can get the black Durhamites to hate the defendants because they're while and he can get the white Durhamites to hate the defendants because they're Yankees. A twofer.

Which would explain why Gottlieb brushed aside Mangum's semi-identification of Durham native Matt Wilson (#4) during the April 4th lineup.

[JamesP81]

Having grown up in NY, and having lived in NJ for 17 years, I know how disliked we are.

Not to put to terribly of a fine a point on it, but a large number of northerners come down here and immediately start telling us how we should do things 'like back home'. I'm not saying you do it, I'm saying many refugees in the south from the Northeast do it, and it definitely doesn't endear you to your new neighbors. To use a southern term, that dog don't hunt.

[Locomotive Breath]

Look upthread. I'm pretty sure Matt Wilson is the guy that demonstrated that he was out of town during the party.

[ltc8k6]

We've already heard about those visits, haven't we? It was UNC doctors who wrote that she said she'd hit her head on the sink, wasn't it? She had contusions, as I recall. Stiff neck, etc. Things that could be faked, IIRC.

We have at least heard about her visit to UNC the next day, I'm sure.

There were probably others.

I do remember hearing that UNC was her regular hospital.

[Locomotive Breath]

The speculation was that since she'd lost her purse at the party she'd lost her flexerile and wanted more. IIRC she got out of Duke hospital on the morning of 14 March and was at the UNC hospital on the morning of 15 March (16 March?). Can't remember for sure but it was very soon after, and I do recall that she had the "hit her head on the sink" thing going on. If her exam from the UNC hospital showed injuries (beat up by a pimp named "Sink" as someone joked?), I'm sure Nifong is going to try and make hay with them saying that that they are a result of being beaten up at the lax party and that they just weren't evident when she was examined at Duke hospital.

[Neverforget01]

definitely doesn't endear you to your new neighbors

I'm not arguing with you-the dislike may be justified. I just think in this case, the prejudice against the Yankees at Duke has had a huge exclamation point put on it, and I think that's too bad--for Duke.

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe Duke would be better off without the Yankees. After all, it was Nothern lax players that caused this.

[I want to know]

We've already heard about those visits, haven't we?

I thought so, too. Wonder which side asked to use the documents?

Judge Osmond Smith said he received medical records involving the accuser from the hospital. Those documents are currently under seal until the judge looks at them and decides whether the prosecution or defense can use them.

[tioga]

-so to this day she has not looked Nifong in the eye and stated the facts.......unbelievable!

[Locomotive Breath]

Well it's one of those "when cultures collide" things. One of the better part of my education at Duke was, when dealing with Yankees, dispense with politeness and give them crap right back. They won't take offense.

My room mate, from Richmond VA, went to see Duke play in the Palestra in Philly. He went to concessions to order a soft drink. He ordered a "Coke" which is not the local lingo. So they had to have an interchange over that. When he got his drink, being a well brought up Southerner, he said a sincere "Thanks" which earned him a dirty look from the concessionaire who figured he was being a smart a$$.

[Enterprise]

"The woman was too distraught on April 11 to talk about the rape, but she was able to continue poll dancing?"

Yes, I believe the medical term is "pole dramatic undress" syndrome.

[Enterprise]

Bump for a great comment!