It's Time for Justice: Drop the charges vs. Duke lacrosse players

The Mercury News ^ | October 16, 2006 | Jason Whitlock

[Fido969]

Tarred and feathered has connotations of lynching? I have never heard that before in my life.

Probably a made-up thing by the pot-bangers. They are always making things up. Remember "More domestic violence happens on Superbowl Sunday then any day of the year"? Just a made-up factoid.

[luv2ski]

There have been a lot of posts on this and other boards giving parents advice on whether to send their kid to or yank them out of Duke. In the end, these decisions are complicated and based on more than just an incident, even as egregious as this one.
My son is a sophomore at Duke and loves the school. He has wonderful friends, has taken some amazing classes and is enjoying living in a completely different part of the country (we are West).
He knows bias when he sees it (he even had one of the 88 lst year and saw through him immediately) and we have discussed on many occasions, issues portrayed in the media unfairly. He knows what I believe and agrees with me most of the time. In my opinion, that is the best I can do. He is the 3rd child of 4. All of them are conservative and see the bias on the MSM and in their schools.
Frankly, bias is rampant in all colleges. It's like trying to find conservatives in journalism!
So- pulling my child out of a school he loves b/c of 88 professors (that he can avoid) makes no sense to me. It's what my mother used to call "throwing the baby out with the bath water". It would also likely solve nothing as anyplace he would transfer to would be just as bad or worse.

[luv2ski]

I have been discussing this very subject with some posters on the Durham-in Wonderland board. This is what I replied to one of them yesterday when he/she suggested my son transfer:

As a parent, you take a risk whenever you let your child out of your sight. Kids have died from alcohol poisoning, car accidents, and crime while away at college. I raised bright children with good sense. I have to, at some point, trust them to live their lives responsibly. Two of my older children went to school in Boston and LA respectively: not exactly "safe" cities either. Frankly, leaving Duke is a type of "Cut and Run" attitude in my opinion. I would rather stay and fight- support the Duke 3. Plus, you should understand that the "pot banger" students are in the minority on Duke's campus. The Chronicle's survey on the topic showed that an overwhelming majority (I think 90% but I can't remember the exact number) support the 3 boys. People have been screaming about liberals on college campuses for years. Yale had to return a $20 million gift from the Bass family (given in 1991) years ago b/c they did not institute a Western Civ program as had been designated in the donation. Political correctness got its start and thrives on college campuses. David Horowitz wrote a book "The Professors" about the 101 worst professors at colleges nationwide. I could go on and on. Are we trying to affect change? Of course! Let's get serious, though! PC is not going to disappear anytime soon, that's for sure. Do you think the government is suddenly going to become efficient? My point is that this is deeply ingrained in the academic culture. It is going to take a long time to change- possibly waiting for this generation of aged hippies to pass on through.

[Locomotive Breath]

Judging by the faculty web pages, most of these people would behave in exactly the same way. Glass house meet stones...

African American Studies Program

Center for African Studies

Department of African and Asian Languages and Literature

Department of Anthropology

Asian Studies Program

Criminality Law and Society

English

History

Center for Latin America Studies

Philosophy

Political Science

Religion

Romance Languages and Literatures

Sociology

Center for Women's Studies

This is only the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. I'll bet The College of Education, The College of Fine Arts, The College of Journalism and Communication, College of Law, and the College of Public Health and Health Professions harbor many similar people.

[JLS]

Judging by the faculty web pages, most of these people would behave in exactly the same way. Glass house meet stones...

So you have reverted to this ignorance again:

1. I WENT to the University of Florida, I did not SEND a child to the University of Florida. Perhaps you could go to dictionary.com and look up the different meanings of the words WENT and SEND.

2. I am not so closed minded that I believe that all lefties are as pathetic as the Duke 88. You can smear all lefty college profs with a broad brush as Mike Nifong and the 88 would have you smear the Duke Lacrosse team with a similar broad brush. You are one scarey person if what brings you to this case is the wrong side is winning rather than it is immoral and wrong to paint with such a broad brush. Duke and particularly the 88 threw these kids under the bus. No one has thrown students under the bus like this at the University of Florida that I know of.

3. There is an OPPORTUNITY at Duke. Because of the errors of Duke and the 88, a shot could be sent across the bow of all academic institutions. If you could put down your pom-poms long enough to THINK about this situation, you might realize this. The opportunity at Duke is to show everyone from Harvard to the University of Florida to University of Central Arkansas that being so publically PC at the expense of your students can get you in real trouble. Had the University of Florida faculty behaved in a similar way, I would favor UF paying a price to give them and Harvard, Duke and the Univeristy of Central Arkansas an incentive to reform.

[JLS]

I don't expect the academy to reform over night nor do I expect the government to become efficient. But when an excess is this bad, either those affected stand up and give those in excess an incentive to reform or the excess will continue, get worse and we all suffer.

As far as this being a cut and run strategy, unless you have an Army and plan on taking Duke University by force, removing your business all all you have. It is not a public institution so you can not go through your legislature.

There are always excuses to not stand up and be counted. There are always excuses to accept behavior like Duke has engaged in and hope you can get your kid out of there with no problems for you. But if problems do arise for you, do you expect to be supported by others?

[abb]

Links to Chronicle articles...

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/10/25/News/Blogs.Stay.Focused.On.Lax.Scandal-2400611.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/10/25/Letters/insensitive.Language.Unintentional-2400648.shtml?norewrite200610251539&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com
http://www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2006/10/25/Letters/Cultivate.Community.Of.Critical.Thought-2400650.shtml?norewrite200610251540&sourcedomain=www.dukechronicle.com

[Locomotive Breath]

1. I WENT to the University of Florida, I did not SEND a child to the University of Florida. Perhaps you could go to dictionary.com and look up the different meanings of the words WENT and SEND.

Bill Clinton is that you? Distinction being what exactly? Would you SEND a child to UF given that there are at least as many idiot professors there (as a percentage) as there are at Duke.

2. I am not so closed minded that I believe that all lefties are as pathetic as the Duke 88. You can smear all lefty college profs with a broad brush as Mike Nifong and the 88 would have you smear the Duke Lacrosse team with a similar broad brush. You are one scarey person if what brings you to this case is the wrong side is winning rather than it is immoral and wrong to paint with such a broad brush. Duke and particularly the 88 threw these kids under the bus. No one has thrown students under the bus like this at the University of Florida that I know of.

Where did I say that all lefties are as pathetic as the 88 at Duke? There are almost certainly lefties there that are properly disgusted with the 88. Don't put words in my mouth and don't set up a straw man. Read the web pages that I listed at UF and the the web pages of the group of 88. If we did a blind study you would not be able tell the difference. Find me any functional distinction based their attitudes as expressed on their own words. Tell me if we couldn't find a similar group at UF. As far as UF not having done this, it has not had a similar situation. And, by the way, "that you know of" is important. Lefty faculty often screw over vulnerable students who leave not with a bang but with a whimper.

3. There is an OPPORTUNITY at Duke. Because of the errors of Duke and the 88, a shot could be sent across the bow of all academic institutions. If you could put down your pom-poms long enough to THINK about this situation, you might realize this. The opportunity at Duke is to show everyone from Harvard to the University of Florida to University of Central Arkansas that being so publically PC at the expense of your students can get you in real trouble. Had the University of Florida faculty behaved in a similar way, I would favor UF paying a price to give them and Harvard, Duke and the Univeristy of Central Arkansas an incentive to reform.

So the institution has ended up with an idiot for a president and about 5% very vocal idiot faculty. So destroy the institution? Who will benefit from that? A good housecleaning is more like it, e.g., destroy Brodhead and all those who signed that statement. Institution preserved and problem solved.

[JLS]

So the institution has ended up with an idiot for a president and about 5% very vocal idiot faculty. So destroy the institution? Who will benefit from that? A good housecleaning is more like it, e.g., destroy Brodhead and all those who signed that statement. Institution preserved and problem solved.

Put down the pom-poms and back away. I have never called for Duke to be destroyed. Duke should be given an incentive to reform. Duke should be an example to all colleges to reform. Duke won't reform unless given a reason to reduce the influence of the 88.

I have never said that people should never send a child to Duke again, but the non Duke situation in Durham is a serious worry. I said people are crazy to send their children to in THIS environment.

Now there are exceptions. Duke may be by far the best college someone's child got in and transfering may be problematic. Duke's credit system may make transfering difficult. [This would be in another discussion a reason to worry about sending a child to Duke.] Someone's child may have a particular scholarship deal that makes transfering to an equal school problematic. But people should not just easily make nor accept reasons not to transfer or send their child elsewhere UNTIL Duke reforms.

I know this much, if you don't give Duke any reason to reform, they wont. If you worry so much about Duke basketball that you can not live with any criticism of Duke, then Duke will have no reason to try to do better. If conservative parents automatically consider the PC schools like Duke, Harvard, and ignor conservative schools like Grove City or Hillsdale, then the PC crowd will continue to run the academy.

[SarahUSC]

Alot of schools could use some house cleaning. My own alma mater and current school could use one. I love SC, but it's true. I think it's because academics are disconnected from the real world to a large degree. They just live in their own little world.

[Locomotive Breath]

Your claim to not have called for Duke's destruction is false. You have repeatedly (and I mean f'ing repeatedly) ranted that no one should send their kid to Duke and all the kids that are there should transfer out.

So what happens if they gave a university and no one came? If a prof speaks in an empty classroom and no one is there to hear it is it a lecture? You make a desolation and call it reform. To save the university we had to destroy it? That's how you'd rectify the situation? How can someone start sending kids to Duke at sometime in the future, "after the problem is fixed", when Duke no longer exists.

I guess you used up the ten posts I gave you before and I didn't notice. Let me take care of that now...

Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est

There now. You can skip your next ten posts. Oh - your pony called and he's tired of his one trick and would like something different.

Students are a fungible commodity. Duke can always fill up its classes and with students with a record every bit as good.

I promise you that Duke is being given an incentive to address this issue. The power is in the alumni and they are pissed. Read upthread about the Development Officer threatening to resign.

And read Donna Shalala's remarks about her situation. She may or may not be true to her word but a message has already been sent about how to NOT handle a situation like this. And in her case the guilt of the athletes was far more clear.

"If you worry so much about Duke basketball that you can not live with any criticism of Duke,"

Find me one posting in the six months I've been posting on this issue where I "worry about Duke basketball" (whatever the hell that means). You can find plenty of postings where I have been harshly critical of the administration. Your solution for fixing the problem is wrong in that it wouldn't actually reduce the student population and even if it did it WOULD destroy Duke. So what I can't live with is your stupid solution. But since you're obviously a Duke hater from way back your duplicitous motives are completely transparent to everyone here.

By the way, I hope you noticed the posts about the former lax players who are in med school and graduate school for biomedical engineering. I'll bet they were special admits because both those organizations are known to give preference to athletes. And those two athletes are the rule and not the exception.

p.s. just for fun see if you can do a post without an ad hominen attack.

[JLS]

Alot of schools could use some house cleaning.

I certainly agreed above. And there is an opportunity now at Duke. Duke has behaved in a way that deserves sanctioning. If they are not, they will not change. If they get away with this, the situation will get worse at Duke and around the country.

[xoxoxox]

City bus manager's statement surprising

BY RAY GRONBERG : The Herald-Sun, Oct 24, 2006 : 10:53 pm ET [excerpt]

-- Hartley's suit contends that MV Transportation fired him to appease City Council members who wanted a black in the general manager's post, and to head off an investigation of the firm's management practices officials threatened to undertake in response to complaints from a member of DATA's Board of Trustees.

Hartley alleges that the MV Transportation and company Vice President of Operations Russell Tieskoetter cut corners by skimping on pollution-control efforts at DATA's maintenance garage, by refusing to hire as many mechanics as the city contract specified and by delaying the replacement of worn-out bus tires.--

http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-781620.html

* Another Durham scandal in the making, under the Baker and Bell watch.

[xoxoxox]

Audit attacks Housing Authority's business practices

BY RAY GRONBERG : The Herald-Sun, Oct 23, 2006 : 10:25 pm ET

DURHAM -- An annual financial audit commissioned by the Durham Housing Authority has savaged the agency's business practices, identifying 14 specific problems that included failures to keep proper inventories and verify the eligibility of rental-subsidy recipients.

The problems are significant enough that the auditing company hired to check the authority's 2005 books wouldn't stand behind them, saying that because officials had failed to document a couple of key assets, it couldn't determine whether the authority's "upper-level financial statements [were] fairly presented." -cut-

http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-781277.html

* The folks running Durham can't seem to get anything right.

[xoxoxox]

Council mulls performance audit

BY RAY GRONBERG : The Herald-Sun, Oct 23, 2006 : 9:05 pm ET

DURHAM -- City Council members say they want City Manager Patrick Baker's advice on how they could go about securing performance audits of Durham government's top three problem departments.

Members are supposed to give Baker their separate lists of potential targets in the next few days, and the manager in turn is supposed to compile them and present his recommendations at a council work session on Nov. 9. The decision emerged from a work session last week.

They acknowledged that their interest in Councilman Thomas Stith's proposal is coming because of a recent series of operational problems highlighted by the fire that erupted at the city's yard-waste dump on Sept. 10.

"Up until two months ago, I thought we were on an upward trajectory," Councilwoman Diane Catotti said. "Then we had a fire, and all of a sudden we got back to rock bottom." -cut-

http://www.heraldsun.com/durham/4-781272.html

* Free advice-- fire Baker and then resign en masse.

[xoxoxox]

No surprise here, the INDY endorses Nifong--- excerpts-- Oct. 25, 2006

Evidence has come to light that Nifong and the Durham Police Department may have mishandled the case. Nifong publicly condemned the defendants before completing his investigation and the cops sidestepped department procedures for the administration of photo line-ups. The district attorney has made amends but, to the chagrin of many, he persists with his prosecution. Maybe he continues for fear of the political fallout from quitting. Maybe he's taking a principled stand. Maybe he has a few tricks up his sleeve. Only Nifong can say, and as everyone knows by now, he's no longer speaking to media. -jump-

We're sticking with the endorsement we made for the April primary: Mike Nifong. Butch Williams, a defense lawyer representing an unindicted lacrosse player, stated it well: "It seems to be unfortunate that the man is being judged for a lifetime job on one set of facts," he told The N&O.

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A39241

--Lengthy responses to candidate questionaires-- Nifong and Monks

http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A39053#nifong

[CondorFlight]

Re : Friday's hearing on motions--maybe we can expect very little; possibly the idea of the Durham elite is to delay everything until after the election ("justice can wait"...)

One thought found on another board, and reposted here :

"If the judge does not eventually toss the photo IDs and any in-court lineup as a follow-up, he will be establishing a disastrous precedent. In every case thereafter,
the prosecution will say, "Well, look at the Duke case--the photo ID was not suppressed in that case"; or, "The in-court ID was not suppressed in that case"; and legions of future defendants will suffer for it and possibly be convicted even though they are innocent."

So we'll see how high a price NC justice will pay for wanting to continue this hoax. . .

[CondorFlight]

"the INDY endorses Nifong"

Is that the paper Lee Coggins is associated with?

" Butch Williams, a defense lawyer representing an unindicted lacrosse player, stated it well: "It seems to be unfortunate that the man is being judged for a lifetime job on one set of facts," he told The N&O."

Butch Williams, attorney for one of the unindicted players...

[xoxoxox]

Yes the INDY, the potbanger rag
kept afloat by all the sex ads in
the back pages--

There do seem to be many conflicts
of interest in this affair.

[JLS]

Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est
Duke delenda est

p.s. just for fun see if you can do a post without an ad hominen attack.

Some will find it amusing that the above was posted by the same person in the same post. Again put down the pom-poms.