Posted on 10/13/2006 7:14:36 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Indian Navy declines to buy British Harriers
Indo-Asian News Service
New Delhi, October 13, 2006
The Indian Navy has declined to buy eight British Sea Harrier FA.2 fighter jets that were phased out of the Royal Navy in March 2006.
According to a report in the October issue of the defence magazine India Strategic, the eight Harriers, which were also the last to serve the Royal Navy, were on offer but without some vital components like missiles and the Blue Vixen fire control radar. The prime consideration was to use them to train pilots and to fill in the gaps caused by the loss of six Harriers in the Indian Navy due to accidents spread over more than 20 years.
Indian Navy pilots and defence ministry representatives inspected and assessed the aircraft for technical and financial evaluation but it was decided not to go in for them as the jets needed considerable expense in upgrading their avionics and arming them.
Published reports indicate that India has 22 Sea Harriers, 16 of them being the FRS.51 fighter version. They are to be gradually replaced by MiG-29K aircraft, some 40 to 50 of which are likely to be acquired from Russia.
India has already contracted to buy 16 MiG-29Ks as part of the deal with Russia to acquire the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, renamed INS Vikramaditya, but more such aircraft would be needed as the Indian Navy grows to its required size and capability.
As for the Royal Navy Harriers, the Indian Navy was initially enthusiastic, but then felt that "devoid of their offensive systems, they wouldn't be of much use". For training "the navy is already considering either the BAe Hawks or Boeing/BAe Goshawks", a source said.
Indian Navy pilots are now being given advanced carrier takeoff and landing training at the US Navy's Pensacola facility to prepare them for the arrival of Gorshkov and MiG-29Ks.
This had become necessary as ironically, the Russians were unable to offer matching training facilities although they sold both the aircraft carrier and the MiG-29K jets.
Harrier jets played a decisive and proven role in the Falklands crisis of 1982. The last naval variant, the FA.2, was armed with US AIM 20 AMRAAM (advanced medium range air-to-air missile) and the Ferranti ARI.50019 Blue Vixen radar that enabled it to engage four targets simultaneously.
India had decided to buy the Harriers in the mid-1970s as part of its efforts to build a blue water navy, while their actual deliveries began in 1983.
The Indian Navy's 16 Sea Harrier FRS.51 fighter versions are now under a midlife upgrade with new air-to-air missiles as well as helmet-mounted target acquisition sights.
The Indian Navy Harriers originally were equipped with the Ferranti Blue Fox radar that had poor "look-down" capability compared to the Blue Vixen of the British Navy.
The Indian Navy plans to use the Sea Harriers till around 2020.
Engines for Indian Sea Harriers were supplied by Rolls Royce while the aircraft have been maintained and upgraded - as prime contractor - by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
The Harriers kicked a$$ in the Falklands and showed a trumped up dictator that British Subjects will not be taken by force.
I think India can afford to buy new. Who knows, if they have a requirement for a VTOL aircraft, they might be able to buy some F-35Bs. Maybe.
I think the Indian navy asked for a (informal) presentation on the F-35 last year or so.Anyway,even if it is released for the IN,it won't be till after 2020 given that the Mig-29K is on order.Anyway,this current Harrier purchase is for attrition replacement -nothing but SeaHarriers could do & all of them are used!!
Harriers, especially the Brit versions, are maintenance hogs and safety nightmares. Add to that a limited payload, range and speed and the Indians did the right thing.
The promise of STOVL has never been fully realized and even modern aircraft of a similar type, notably the F-35B, give up too much real-world performance in order to achieve that one, replaceable STOVL objective.
They're better off investing in CTOL aircraft with much better performance.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the F-35B ;)
The project is far behind schedule, insanely over budget and the "B" variant is the biggest headache of all.
If the F-35 ever flies, I doubt the "B" version will join it.
Since the current Indian carrier which India which will probably last another 5-6 years can only take V/STOL jets,only the Harrier can count.Period.
Anyway these jets would be engaged in defending oil & industrial installations on the Indian West Coast or hitting Pakistani shipping.There is very little chance of them tangling with Pakistan's (few) F-16s & that wouldnt be an unfair fight either.
That work is well under way and the carrier will look like this when completed:.
They are also alreayd building a new indigenous carrier that will also be STOLA, the Vikrant.
Both will use the Mig-29 as the principle component of their air wings.
My mistake.
I was thinking about the Brits provision for a modern, electric catapult system on their next generation of carriers (plucking off the ski-ramp when the technology and aircraft are on-line).
Yep- i hope they get that online,but one can't be sure given the state of Britain's defense spending.As of now,their 2 new CVFs will be ski-jumped.Ski-jumps take a toll on even conventional jets esp on payload terms.The Mig-29K or even F-35B would be hampered by that.
The B version is on track. It had a weight issue that was solved by removing the internal gun and decreasing the size of the internal weapons bay.
The UK has practically staked it entire Naval Aviation future on the F-35B so I think it's gonna happen. It may be late, it may be over budget, but I'm guessing it's as close as anything ever is to being a done deal.
It is my understanding that the next generation CVF for the Royal Navy will not have catapults, but will retain the ability to fit them in the future. Has this changed?
I don't know. By "on track", do you mean years behind schedule with the rest of the F-35 variants? ;)
Even with removing the gun (not a hangup for me), the design has performance shortcomings and the cost is far above that of the A and C versions. The reduction of the internal weapons bay is not a good development, making an unattractive option even more unattractive. Then there's the actual production problems that invariably arise.
Remember that the UK has looked forward to electromagnetic rail technology for future catapult systems, and that they've been looking at the F/A-18E/F as an alternative to additional F-35B/C delays. If the F-35B is delayed any longer, they may make the decision to go ahead with the more conventional carrier design and negate the need for a STOVL aircraft.
Then there's the Brits concern about technology transfer. They're building the aft section of the F-35 and are a primary partner, but the US is resistant to releasing the avionics, software and stealth technology packages to them. This political problem, adding to the cost overruns and delays, might kill the deal.
No, that's the plan.
But the funding for the carriers and the aircraft is uncertain.
If the JSF does'nt pan out the way it is expected,there has been talk of a buying the French naval Rafale or even 'navalising' the Eurofighter,which is easier said than done.Recently Saab & BAE systems revealed plan to enhance the Gripen fighter & possibly develop a carrier capable fighter.
It might just be wishful thinking, but a guy at McBoeing is saying that the Brits might want a navalized Eurofighter, but that the F/A-18Es performance (and cost) is making it very popular at the MOD. Of all of them, it's the most proven carrier-based fighter.
Bump!
Regards, Ivan
Wasn't trying to make a point, just thought you'd be interested as to the Royal Navy doings.
These jets would go to waste since no one wants them with the RN junking the airdefence role for it's carriers.I wish India brought these jets since it plans to keep it's Harrier fleet upto 2015.These British F/A-2s being offered are pretty new(built after 1995)-arming them with the new Israeli radar & Derby BVRAAM would have made them pretty potent.But since the IN is considered the cinderalla of India's military,it probably though of using it's limited funds on something brandnew!!
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