Vanity- For a gun novice, what pistol for self-defense?

no real reason for high capacity except to compensate for lousy aim

That was a cheap shot (pretty gud pun huh?). Most shootouts (self defense stuations) usually last for a couple of seconds and generally expend just a few rounds. I'm a pretty damn good shot, but still prefer more capacity that the J frames.

.38 spl smith and wesson w/ 3-4" barrel. Get a twin for you also. Simple to understand, ready when you need it.

BTW, if a "ladysmith" fits you both, don't let the name fool you. No one will call you a gillie man for carrying one. They have a smoother trigger pull straight from the factory. EVERYONE that has shot my wife's mdl 36 has fallen head over heels--serious macho types as well. It was a graduation gift from her Dad, and was his favorite among many. No, it's not as hi-capacity as an automatic---but when you grab it out in a pinch it's there for you one handed and RIGHT NOW!.

Also, many WWII guys will tell you that a victory model s&w revolver was a coveted teddy bear.

Some personal opinions, which you should dutifully ignore along with all others until you have read the "Bible".

1. I would never let a loved one rely on a Glock. There are too many creepy stories about negligent discharges, and I have heard about them discharging without the trigger even being touched when the frame is torqued. These are very controversial, open to dispute, and Glocks are still great guns. But there are other EUro brands that compete and arguably exceed without all the worrisome stories. (HK, Sig, etc.)

2. The best carry gun is one you CARRY (but as powerful as possible given that.) Cost no object, 9mm pocket gun from www.rohrbaughfirearms.com is a real ideal (but over $1000, and worth it.) Realistic option at 1/4 the price is Kel-Tec P3AT(?) (.380 ACP)

3. It is a myth that delicate women have trouble with powerful calibers. A 45 can be perfect. Don't let anyone teach your lady to be frightened. Get good instruction first, and ignore the boobs (there are lots of them.)

4. Get the best holster you can, and plan on buying several until you get the perfect one for each season and carry type.

5. Don't try to be too rational or analytical about your purchasing decision. You'll buy more later anyway. The most important thing is that you need to LOVE the gun, the way it looks, shoots, feels. You need to feel pride of ownership. that's because it will make you want to practice, and make you want to carry it with you. Without those things, you may as well pick a different hobby.

Oh, and you need to know now that there is one universally correct answer to every gun purchasing dilemma:

BOTH!

Chiming in over mostly old ground. Try before you buy is a great idea, and some ranges will drop membership requirements if they know that's what you're doing. Chat up the Range Officer and if he's like mine you'll get the guided tour through the display case.

For this specific purpose a smallish revolver in .38 Special would do nicely. Slightly larger frames will accommodate .357 magnum, which isn't much fun to practice with but is an outstanding self-defense caliber when matched with the proper bullet. My 77-year-old Mom tried half a dozen firearms before she settled on her own LadySmith.

Far, far more important is to get her some lessons and practice, practice, practice, and then more practice. By all means pursue concealed carry licenses. In some states - I don't know about Florida - it makes it much easier just to carry the piece to the range for practice. And it means that in times when sphincters start to tighten you'll be carrying legally, and that makes a lot of difference to a nervous LEO.

Lastly, study the laws pertinent to your area. HERE are the Florida laws. I'd recommend www.packing.org for anyone else who might be curious about their own state's laws.

And as someone else said, if you're really in a quandary about which gun to buy, buy both. ;-)

I also say the small to medium frame 38 or 357 (revolver obviously).

No jams, easy to understand and operate. Best choice.

Brand? S&W, Ruger, Colt, Taurus

Advanced Taser Gun M-18 In police studies, the new Advanced Taser has a higher instant incapacitation rate than a 9mm hand gun. The Advanced Taser shoots out 2 darts ...

Hey, are these legal in Florida?

Paxton Quigley has a new book out, we have her earlier work (Armed and Female) and it's pretty good, my wife actually read most of it and has been making noises about going on a course.

One thing that must be taken into supreme consideration when making the decision of choosing a firearm for the purpose of self-defense: The person's mindset must be adapted to actually being able to pull the trigger on another human being. This is not something to take lightly, and if this isn't considered and decided beforehand in the affirmative, it's better to never even show a weapon.

A vital point not mentioned enough in these kinds of discussion.

No offense--you're not a sales rep for the company are you?

Glock makes a very fine, compact 9mm which would be an excellent self-defense pistol. Also, after my grandfather died, my grandmother bought herself a .38 which she got to like and became quite proficient with.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/gunladys/

As a beginner, stay away from Glocks and any pistol with the safety on the trigger. Keep the pistol on you instead of in a purse like someone already mentioned. Your defensive calibers start at .38 special or nine millimeter. Don't use anything smaller. Try to rent before buying. Look at reputable manufactures like Colt, Smith, Taurus, Ruger, Kimber, Springfield Armory. Don't even think about a Derringer.

Buying a firearm for defensive use is now your new hobby and obssesion. Get a good instuctor and practice as much as you can.

20mm anti-vehicle weapon of Argentine origin, with the sights on the side? I saw something remarkably similar to that at a gun show once and was just wondering.

Alot of the folks here will recommend a small .38.

Good advice-start there and go where you and your wife feel comfortable.

Training is a must.

I have not read all the thread-I am unsure of the laws in your locality, but learn them and comply concerning permits etc. The Second Amendment is a powerful thing, but I know of few that can afford to be the "Test Case" for that trumping the laws in place, whether we like it or not.

"It is a myth that delicate women have trouble with powerful calibers. A 45 can be perfect. "

Right on, 'bub.

My wife is 5'4" and owns her own Ruger SP101 .357 with 3" barrel. She shoots it with .38+p's (hope we're not giving domenad too much info here), and she can shoot my GP100 with some magnum loads.

She genuinely gets a thrill out of shooting her dad's .45 auto, though.

Because of the .45's knockdown power, I suppose, people tend to overestimate the .45's effect on the shooter's end. I once saw an eight year old kid shoot a .45 with mild loads, under his dad's close supervision of course.

My next handgun(s) will probably be big-bore revolver(s) because of their effectiveness relative to their recoil - .44special, .45acp REVOLVER, and/or .45 colt.

Their only drawback is that they're not really concealable for those in warm climes, but goodness what a nightstand piece...

Also I appreciate your remark about how important it is, at a point, to just buy the one that you LIKE best. If you like it you'll have a better rapport with it just like a friend, and you'll take it out and shoot it more.

OK Four big issues.

#1: no one should carry a gun if they aren't willing to use it. Pulling a gun and not being willing to shoot an attacker is an invitation for getting you gun taken away and used against you. I do not recommend carrying a gun if you have any doubt that you can kill another person, and I do not recommend carrying a gun unless you have a good sense about when killing is an appropriate response to a threat. If a gun comes out in a fight, bet on some one dying. It doesn't happen every time, but it's a real possibility. Either you are shooting someone, or they are going to kill you (possibly in response to you showing them a weapon, possibly with your weapon). Using a gun in self defense is the real deal, and the stakes don't get higher.

#2: Get good training. Pay for it if you can't get it for free. She needs to know both when to use a gun and how to use it if the time comes. Like I said, the stakes don't get higher.

#3: make sure you have a way to secure a gun kept in your car against theft. I don't know how to keep a gun in your car that is both secure and accessible. Just think about it. #4: I like revolvers. I really like .38 Special revolvers. You can get a revolver grip that will fit you hand, big or small. Revolvers are carried in a very safe condition, yet are ready to fire. Revolvers stand up to abuse and neglect. Revolvers are not (for the most part) effected by lint, etc., that you may find in your pocket, glove box, or purse (many people recommend against carrying a gun in your purse). Many small autos are. Revolvers are easy to determine whether they are loaded or unloaded, and are rendered safe and inert by opening the cylinder. A double action revolver takes practice to shoot well. Once you get that practice, they are great. An auto the fires the first shot double action and subsequent shots single action are the most difficult to learn to shoot well (I know, I've learned both). A single action auto, like a 1911, can be safely carried with the safety engaged (cocked and locked), but this requires additional training to disengage the safety before firing. It can be done, but you need to learn it. Some people are not comfortable leaving a cocked weapon laying around. I think this is risky. Plenty of people disagree. All that said, Colt used to make a Detective Special which was a small, six shot, .38 revolver. They can be found used. Lots of people like them. Smith and Wesson makes J frame revolvers (five shots in .38, or six in .32 magnum) They are a little smaller than the Colts. Some model numbers were 37, 640, 67. Smith and Wesson also makes K frame revolvers which are bigger than J frames or Detective Specials, and hold six rounds of .38 special or .357 Magnum (which also shoots .38 Specials). The K frames are the classic police revolvers. They come with short barrels between about 2-3", and longer barrels 4" and over. Some people regard them as the best handling combat revolvers ever made. I don't know, I haven't shot many other revolvers. I do not see a need to change anything about the K frame. Model numbers include 10, 15, 19, 65, 65 Lady Smith, and 66. I don't think anyone could go wrong with a USED Smith and Wesson J or K frame revolver for defense. It's about how big a revolver you want to lug around. If size doesn't matter, a 4" K frame is hard to beat, although I see little difference in ease of use between a 2 1/2 inch and 4 inch K frame. You may need to change the grips, make sure they fit the owner.

ping for later.

Having "taught" a few ladies to shoot, Id recommend the 38 revolver as well. semi autos just have to many issues to be dependable for many women. Many women dont posess the upperbody strength to rack the slide. Jams can occur.

With the revolver none of these things are issues.
Point and pull the trigger

SO YOU WANT TO CARRY? HEY?

If you flash your gun, John Lott says you only fire once every two thousand threats you have a gun or flash a gun. When you believe that you are ready to carry.

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here are the rules
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CREED OF OATH OF CCW OWNERS

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry

"YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY."

"KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON."

"IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN RUN!"

"DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL."

"DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU."

Detail

5 Rules of Conceal and Carry (like a pistol)

1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.

Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.

2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.

The criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.

B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,

C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.

When all three of these "attack potential" elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response. Note that these conditions may be defined differently in certain circumstances. For example, a small woman may be justified in using deadly force with a handgun against a much stronger male who is unarmed and attempting to rape or kill her. For a male vs. male encounter the defendant probably would not be justified unless possibly if he was physically handicapped, elderly, etc. This is known as disparity of force.

3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN, RUN!

Just because you are armed doesn't necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your situation awareness skills so that you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble as much as possible. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might only be your bruised ego, which should heal quickly with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation, and it escalates into deadly force, you risk the possibility of death or serious injury to yourself and any friends, family members, or innocent bystanders that may be present.

Also you face the possibility of criminal liability and/or financial ruin from a civil lawsuit as a result of your actions. Flee if you can - fight only as a last resort.

Naturally, there are circumstances in which you may be able to flee but it would not be in your best interest or judgment to do so. For example, a situation that you could easily flee from when alone may be difficult to safely avoid if your family was with you. Also it may be a judgment/ethics call on whether or not to fight or flee based on what is happening to potential victims around you.

For example, a gunman may be threatening the life of someone else and not even notice you. If you leave the scene, and go call 911 and just wait for the police to show up, you may have to deal with guilt and emotional issues that result if the gunman kills someone. In contrast, if you intervene, then you may risk your own life. The gunman may have a partner, which you have not identified and involvement may find you outgunned. Remember that self-preservation, and keeping your loved ones safe should be your first priorities. Always remember to stay calm and quickly analyze the situation at hand. Use good judgment on how you will react to any given circumstance.

4. DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.

You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.

Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times. You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed weapon. He of she might become alarmed and report you as a "man or woman with a gun". Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested. Even though your jacket only blew open for a moment, giving a brief glimpse of your gun, that person may tell the police that you were waving it around like a homicidal maniac. An alarmed citizen who reports a "man or woman with a gun" is going to be a lot more credible to police than you are when you are stopped because you match the "suspect's" description and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession. Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself "is this worth going to jail for?" The only time this question should warrant a "yes" response is when an adversary has at least both the ABILITY and INTENT and is actively seeking the OPPORTUNITY to do you great harm.

Also, remember that proper concealment of a weapon is more than just covering it up so that it is not physically visible. You want to remove as much as possible any signs that you are armed. For example, you would not wear a tight T-shirt that shows the lines of your gun printing through it, especially if that T-shirt has a firearm related logo or statement on it. Also, a black nylon fanny-pack or a photographer's vest may, in certain areas or in certain modes of dress tell any half-educated person that you are packing a gun. It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun. This fact should be limited to your immediate family and select friends who are "gun people" also. Please, for your sake and the sake of others around you - be discreet!

5. DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.

When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just "wolf-whistled" at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the "attack potential" elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.

Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude.

38/357 Revolver and lots of practice
The S&W 686 on the lower left might be a good choice.