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Sister Joining Jehova's Witnesses-Should I be Worried?

Posted on 09/18/2006 1:23:37 PM PDT by agooga

My sister is 43 years old, lives in a very small town about 1,000 miles away in our home town. We have relatives in the town as well. She has a 4 year old son (no father) and has fallen for a man there who is a JW.

They are seriously talking of marriage and she seems to be well on the road to adopting his religion.

We were raised Catholic, but she hasn't set foot in a church in years, as far as I know.

I know little to nothing of JW, other than the usual bad rap it gets as a "cult," etc.

I WILL BE DOING MY OWN RESEARCH (for all the FReepers out there who complain that people actually ask other people's advice/opinion rather than Doing Their Own Research). But I often find that I get some interesting POV's by soliciting here.

And, don't let my tagline scare you off-- I am not anti-religion in the least. I think religion in general has been a huge positive net gain for mankind.


TOPICS: Religion; Society; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: jehovahswitnesses
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To: ET(end tyranny)
I was laughing at you.

My, what a godly thing to do.

Clear as mud.

Clear as crystal to anyone who reads Greek.

The Greek Old Testament of John's day uses the exact same phrase - egw eimi.

Jesus did not say: "before Abraham came into being, I came into being" but "before Abraham was, I AM."

His hearers knew exactly what he meant, and picked stones to kill Him for His blasphemy - when the true blasphemy was their disbelief of His words.

You and friends the Muslims can deny all you want that Jesus is Almighty God.

Your cynical dhimmi strategy to save your neck is understandable.

But the fact remains that Jesus of Nazareth is I AM WHO AM.

121 posted on 09/20/2006 6:45:11 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
You have yet to address several parts of my posts, but instead you resort to name calling.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Was Paul wrong? If so, what else was he wrong about?

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

Jesus makes no distinction between himself and others. Why is that?

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Is Jesus asking why he forsook himself?

John 14:28
My Father is greater than I.

If Jesus is God, how can something or someone be greater than him?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Clearly shows two different entities.

Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

Are angels stronger than God? There are two different wills spoken of in the above verses. Explain how that can be, if they are not two different entities.

122 posted on 09/20/2006 7:13:03 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Do some research on what Christians mean by the words "Trinity" and "Hypostatic Union" and then get back in the game.

Start with the Athanasian Creed as a good summary.

123 posted on 09/20/2006 7:16:49 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

I'll take your non answers to mean that you cannot reconcile the two different entities, or explain Paul stating that Jesus was a MAN.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 6:4 -- Hear, O Israel: YHWH is our God, YHWH is one.

Accept no substitutes!

Have a good day and thanks for the 'chat'. ;)


124 posted on 09/20/2006 7:43:30 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
I'll take your non answers to mean that you cannot reconcile the two different entities, or explain Paul stating that Jesus was a MAN.

Paul was correct, of course.

Jesus of Nazareth is truly God and truly man.

Hence my suggestion that you learn about the Hypostatic Union before you declare a conflict that does not exist.

125 posted on 09/20/2006 7:55:42 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: when He hath said, will He not do it? or when He hath spoken, will He not make it good? (20) Behold, I am bidden to bless; and when He hath blessed, I cannot call it back.


126 posted on 09/20/2006 8:01:07 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: agooga
I am concerned about this world, right now.

Yes, I figured you were. That's why I answered as I did.

You and your sister are in a car, stalled on a railroad crossing. There's a train coming down the tracks. But, you're wondering if you should be concerned that she hangs out with the wrong crowd.

127 posted on 09/20/2006 8:39:13 AM PDT by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. You have the right to be wrong.)
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To: wideawake
I accidently grabbed an extra verse.

Jesus of Nazareth is truly God and truly man.

God is not half God and half man.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: when He hath said, will He not do it? or when He hath spoken, will He not make it good?

128 posted on 09/20/2006 10:59:35 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: wideawake
Paul was correct, of course.

Jesus of Nazareth is truly God and truly man.

Incidentally, that's not what Paul said!

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

129 posted on 09/20/2006 12:28:44 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: wideawake
Jesus never says "I am God". He does however, tell us that he is a man, according to John 8:40 anyway. :)

Jhn 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Jesus knows that God is not a man!

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: when He hath said, will He not do it? or when He hath spoken, will He not make it good?

130 posted on 09/21/2006 6:38:59 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (Psalm 146:3 - Put not your trust in Princes, nor in the Son of man, in whom there is no help.)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Jesus Christ proclaimed his divinity as I pointed out above. Jesus of Nazareth is God Almighty. Jesus of Nazareth is also a man.

That is the entire point - his death and resurrection are a meaningless episode otherwise. The God of Abraham did not need a new miracle to demosntrate His power.

Paul acknowledging Jesus' humanity does not mean a denial of His divinity.

God's statements in Numbers were accurate at the time of Numbers. He chose to reveal more to us in the person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ - the New Testament was given for a purpose - to reveal elements of God's plan for the world which had not yet been revealed in Numbers.

131 posted on 09/21/2006 6:45:27 AM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: wideawake
Jesus Christ proclaimed his divinity as I pointed out above. Jesus of Nazareth is God Almighty. Jesus of Nazareth is also a man.

God is not a half and half. Jesus never explicitly states "I am God", when it would have been so easy to do so. Instead you read into the text something that is not there. He DOES tells us EXPLICITLY, in no uncertain terms though, that he is a MAN! :)

That is the entire point - his death and resurrection are a meaningless episode otherwise. The God of Abraham did not need a new miracle to demosntrate His power.

His death is unfortunate but was not necessary for the salvation of mankind. Even Jesus himself tells us how to have ternal life.

Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

132 posted on 09/21/2006 6:59:02 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: wideawake
Incidentally, Jesus not only tells us how to gain eternal life, but he also, once again, affirms that he is NOT God in the following: :) Matthew 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

A twofer!! :)

133 posted on 09/21/2006 7:19:24 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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