Tony Soprano Channeling Sam Spade (Re Sgt. Gottlieb - NY Times Star Witness, Duke Rape Hoax)

Liestoppers ^ | 08-26-2006 | Tony Soprano of Court TV Board Fame

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

FODU has an interesting post:
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=28993478&postID=115573230489049635

I find all this discussion about Brodhead very interesting and I want to throw my two cents worth into the conversation. Many people on this board may not be aware of this and I think it is important that find out. Last year, the Tri Delta sorority of Duke University had party. A male stripper was hired for the party (nothing unusual about that --it seems this is a very common practice and something that apparently everyone has come to expect). The male stripper performed, and luckily, did not accuse any of the girls with rape. Photos were taken, and the photos were posted on the Face book. The bad news is that someone reported the photos to the Duke Administration and urged them to punish the girls. They had no choice, and they did. The Tri Delta sorority was penalized and could not hold functions for either one or two full semesters. If I understand it correctly, the probation/punishment period is now over.

Here is the question. Many girls attended that party: your daughter my daughter many others. Do we look at these girls dangerous criminals? Do we keep them away from campus? No. They are treated with dignity and respect and their little mishap is something everyone looks back on with a smile on their face. It has become kind of a joke. What is the difference then between the Tri Delta's little stripper party and the Lacrosse party? The answer: one included a lying stripper and the other did not. I cannot see any other difference. Do you?

It is your decision now, knowing that the stripper party was a tradition for years for the spring break, something students came to expect, how many past Lacrosse players are there who attended a similar party in the years past? I would say many. Are they all potential criminals who should be locked up? No, of course not. Then, let us all get off of this "we are so perfect; and these boys are so exceptionally bad; they do not represent the average student at Duke" crap and see the things as they are –especially Brodhead. For better or worst, these kids were doing what all of their peers were doing. It went badly for them because the stripper turned out to be a real piece of work. That is the only extraordinary thing about the spring break party. We may be proud about the fact or we may sad. But, it is there and we cannot erase it just by pretending that it is not.

This is what makes this case so sad. If it was not for the lying/criminal stripper, these guys too, like many before them, could have remembered the night as another crazy Duke night. There is nothing criminal these guys did that hundreds of other Duke students didn't do. Am I saying "stripper parties are okay?" No, they are not okay, but they have been a part of life at Duke (and at other universities) and we all know it. Pretending that this was the “first and only” time it ever happened is being less than honest, and it is wrong. Let us all stop this PRETENSE and HYPOCRISY.

4:40 AM, August 25, 2006
 

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It might be time to connect a few new dots.

1. Hiring  a stripper during spring break is somewhat of a known tradition.
2. Durham is not a large town, Gottlieb knows who is who.
3. Gottlieb hates, despises, loathes Duke.
4. Kim Roberts embezzled almost 25,000.  Had paid back nothing, violated her probation and just went on about herlife as if nothing happened.  She did not even get jail time for God's sake.
5. Kim gets a sweetheart bond deal after she was "arrested" and her concern is not that she will go to jail, but that no one will hire her after this mess.

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911 Calls - www.ezboard.com
Transcripts

12:53 A.M.

Dispatcher: Durham 911, where's your emergency?

Caller [Kim Pittman]: Hi, I don't know if this is an emergency or not, necessarily, but I'm in Durham, and I was driving down near Duke's campus, and it's me and my black girlfriend, and the guy -- there's like a white guy by the Duke wall -- and he just hollered out 'nigger' to me. And I'm just so angry I didn't know who to call. [Crying]

I don't know if this is an emergency. They're just hanging out by the wall off of Buchanan, off of Buchanan Street.

Dispatcher: On which side?

Caller: It's right outside of 610 Buchanan Street. And they came - I saw them all come out of, like, a big frat house, and me and my black girlfriend are walking by, and they called us 'niggers.' [Crying]

So I don't know what's gonna happen - I can't - I'm not gonna press the issue, I guess. But I live in a neighborhood where they wrote KKK on the side of a white station wagon, and that's near right where I'm at, you know what I mean. And they didn't harm me in any way, but I just feel so completely offended, I can't even believe it. I thought, you know, saying, times have changed, and I don't even know what the Hell is going on.

Dispatcher: O.K.

Caller: It's right in front of 610 Buchanan. I saw them coming out of this frat house. 610 North Buchanan. I'm sitting right out in front of it right now. [Crying]

So, I'm not going to press the issue, but, whatever, however Durham city feels about racial slurs and stuff, however you guys want to handle it, you can handle it however you do. I'm not hurt in any way, OK.

Dispatcher: All right.

Caller: [Thank you, baby?] or [Thank you, lady?]

Dispatcher: You're welcome.

Caller: Bye.

Dispatcher: B'Bye.
 

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That first call was made for one reason, get the cops to Buchanan.  Maybe at that time, she was on her own.  But then she shows up at Kroger:

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911 Calls - www.ezboard.com

Edited by: accurate reflection at: 8/25/06 4:22 pm
1:22 A.M.
Dispatcher: Durham 911, where is your emergency?

Caller [Angel Altmon, Krogers security guard]: Yes, hello, I'm at Hillsborough Road at the Kroger store, I'm the security guard?

Dispatcher: O. K. And what's the phone number you're calling from?

Caller: 383-2249.

Dispatcher: And what's the problem?

Caller: Um, the problem is ... it's a lady in somebody else's car and she will not get out of their car. She's like, she's like intoxicated, drunk or something. She's, I mean, she won't get out of the car, period.

Dispatcher: What kind of car is she in?

Caller (to Pittman): What kind of car do you have?

Pittman: It's a little Honda Accord.

Cal It's a Honda Accord.

Dispatcher: What color?

Caller: What color is your car?

Pittman: Navy blue, but it looks black at night.

Caller: Navy blue, but it looks black at night.

Pittman: Maybe they can take her where she needs to go more than I can.
                (strange thing to say)
Dispatcher: Just a moment ... Now does she have any weapons or anything?

Caller: Does she have any what?

Dispatcher: Weapons or anything?

Caller: No, ma'am. She's barely talking.

Pittman: And she's fairly drunk. She has no weapons, not dangerous or anything.

Caller: Yeah.

Dispatcher: And where is the owner of the car?

Caller: The owner of the car is standing right here now ...

Pittman: And I can explain what happened.
               
Caller:... and she says she can explain what happened.
                (alas, 911 operator did not give her the chance)
Dispatcher: OK, and what is her name?

Caller: What's your name?

Pittman: My name's Kim.

Caller: Kim.

Dispatcher: OK, and where is she? She's at the customer service station?

Caller: Uh huh ... you want to talk to her?

Dispatcher: Just let her know that we'll send someone out there to help her.

Caller: OK.

Dispatcher: All right

Caller: All right

Dispatcher: B'bye.

Pittman: Are they going to send somebody?

Caller: Yeah.

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She could have called Tammy Rose or Melissa.  "Where do I dump her, I can't take her to my house."

Question of the day:

Does Gottlieb know Kim?  Could this have been a set up after all?

Where did Kim go after she left 610 and before she got to Kroger? Who did she talk to? Was her phone seized by DPD?  She has a passed out drunk lady in her car and says "Oh wait, let me make this deposit first?"  I don't think so

Kim could have called the agency, talked to Melissa or Tammy Rose. She could have said come get her or where do I take her.  But no, she was more than eager to dump this into the lap of DPD.  Her actions were not the actions of someone afraid of going to jail for her past crimes.  She had no fear of the cops.

This may not have been planned way out in advance.  But if she has no fear of the cops, if she knows cops, it would make sense in this situation to call a friendly cop.  And maybe that call was made before she got to Kroger.

I think it is something to seriously explore.  Gottlieb is coming across more and more sinister each day.  He  has his own agenda.  Look at it this way.  He might not be a stupid man, but he is an ignorant fool if he thinks the magical, mystical note trick will work with the country watching.

Has he done that trick in previous trials?

I seriously doubt the Blinco Beating was out of character for him.

All signs point to him being a bully with a badge and a gun.

 

 

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

Strategery
:-)

[Mike Nifong]

Is she crazy or what? Defending her right to smear and besmirch people on TV. She made it sound like the public wants people like her on TV making these calls.

As if public opinion supercedes law.

That is one dangerous woman. She still contended tonight that Ramsey had a problem with Child Porn - and everyone else says that no such evidence was found. She must be planning to use some foundations money for defense - because she's not worried and she's still lobbing bombs. SHe may be right - the ACLU, NOW, the Democratic Party - everyone may foot the bill to defend feminists' rights to accuse men on National TV without any evidence - none.

The problem is the average American thinks these people know what they're talking about or that they have some special inside information. They attach credibility that history shows is not warranted. My guess is that's why these people like Guilfoyle, Grace, Murhpy, never admit they were wrong - or come out and correct the record on TV. I would feel a responsibility to state I was wrong and admit it. They do the opposite and that's probably so they maintain that credibility with casual observers and Fans.

_

[Jezebelle]

Thanks. :>

[NDLax84]

1st call:12:53a. 2d call: 1:22a.

Um, what/where did Kimmie do/go during that 1/2 hour? Kroger is 4 minutes away.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

My point exactly. There is a hotel nearby. She lives not far from Kroger. Precious lives fairly close.

Did she drive around for thirty minutes trying to decide "what's a poor girl to do?"

She is a woman of the night and probably knows alot of the cops. It is not too far fetched to think maybe she called a cop friend. That is why it is important to determine of she & Gottlieb are "acquainted."

[darbymcgill]

This may not have been planned way out in advance. But if she has no fear of the cops, if she knows cops, it would make sense in this situation to call a friendly cop.

you may be on to something PTBOR... I don't know if it was planned, but we have been told it was common knowledge on the streets that you control the blood test when you claim a crime has been committed..

Kim said in her statement she went to Kroger's to find an off duty cop, but there was only a security guard... makes you wonder who she expected to find there... plus from what we've heard, she had to practically pass by a police substation on her way to the Kroger's...

Is this Kroger's one of those in the pimp handbook of where to go if there's trouble and you need a cop to bail you out?

[JLS]

Could this have been a set up after all?

1. No, this was not a set up. Were it a setup, Pittman [aka Roberts] would not have called it a crock at first. An there are a thousand other detail, like Mangum being able to pick 3 that would have been handled better. If this were a set up, it was possible the worst set up in the history of the world.

2. As I think LB posted, someone did, long long long ago about this mess, you have everyone behaving just as you would expect. You have a stripper crying rape to avoid jail/the nut house. You have second stripper who maybe drove the first around to steal her money and wanted nothing to do with the hoax. You have a DA pressing an electoral opportunity. You have police originally dismissing this obvious transparent hoax, but climbing on board when they see the DA running with it. You have PC administrators and faculty members at Duke behaving just as you would expect And you have a team of lacrosse players behaving like they are innocent, cooperating with police, not arguing about giving up DNA etc until they perceive they are going to be railroaded anyway.

3. Finally I saw that disgusting piece of trash Wendy Murphy on FNC a little as I was not able to switch channels fast enough to avoid her completely as I usually do. She is at least as nuts as Mangum.

[Mike Nifong]

I seriously doubt the Blinco Beating was out of character for him.

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This is at the core. Are we supposed to believe he was caught the first time?

Is this the first time Nifong has misrepresented evidence?
Is this the first time that false affidavits were filed by this crew? Is this the first time that evidence morphs and conforms to the crime - later!

The willingness of these people to handle this case like this and boldy, repeatedly go before cameras and persist in the pursuit of the players in the face of contradictory evidence - I can't believe this case is an abberration.
That they've been law and order by the book guys and suddenly there's all these contrary indications in this one case. A mistake is one time. There's a distinct pattern in this case.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

What you say makes alot of sense in an honest world. In a corrupt city such as Durham, who knows.

Just something to keepin the back of your mind as more about Gottlieb comes to light.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

BTW, TV and remote are across the room. Too lazy to get up. Have sat thru several episodes of COPS while at laptop.

There are truly some stupid people in this world.
Stupid, stupid, stupid

Going to bed.

[Mike Nifong]

Additionally, there may be room between a set-up and friends/aquaitences on the force.

I have always been bothered by that oddly worded radio communication about the young-uns.

There could be other issues at play too. We know how accepting Nifong and crew was of the woman's story probably for 6 weeks. She told them something and they got on TV and repeated it.

It's POSSIBLE, that Kim and Crystal knew each other. The investigators took the word of a convicted Felon running from the law - and a woman that admits to dealing drugs and has stolen a car and tried to run over a Police Officer.

Crystal may have known her as Nikki. They could've had a competitive relationship - or even had done shows together before. Remember, we were also told that she was new to dancing and didn't want to enter the house that night.
Subsequently, it was revealed the AV was dancing at a club over 4 years ago and one driver said she's a veteran of the strip circuit.

When Kim and Mark Simeon first went on TV - with Kim's face blacked out, Simeon called the AV her FRIEND.

I would not be surprised if we were mislead on a couple larger points that have become commonly accepted - and we may never know. The fact is, the DPD didn't, it appears, investigate either of these women. Nifong's interests laid with believing them and propping them up - not knocking them down.

The almost non-existent arrests for prostition in Durham is very suspicious. How does this happen? It's totally out of line with surrounding areas. If Crystal doesn't talk until Durham Access - and is so out of it at that point - how does one explain those radio transmissions about checking on the youngins.

Maybe it'll be fleshed out in court - or maybe we'll never know.

=

[pepperhead]

I hope John Ramsey bankrupts Wendy Murphy. And when this Duke case is over I hope they go after this witch too.

[SarahUSC]

I find it impossible to believe he didn't take a single note until April 26th. What kind of investigator takes no notes? I think he junked his real notes and typed up some fake ones to fit the facts.

The thing is he's not smart enough to keep track of the lies. He thinks he's filling in the holes in the investigation but he hasn't thought two or three steps ahead.

[SarahUSC]

Zash is hot.

Sorry everyone, but I can't help noticing that.

[Mike Nifong]

It is totally unbelievable.

6 weeks before handwriting anything - than everything in his notes answers every prior inconsistency.

The NYT didn't see it quite that way though.

[SarahUSC]

I was in a sorority in college and these things happen. The fraternities on campus were known to hire them too. I can guarantee that the Duke men's lacrosse team is not the first group of college-aged guys or girls to hire a few strippers. After this incident though, they may be one of the last.....

[Ken H]

The thing is he's not smart enough to keep track of the lies. He thinks he's filling in the holes in the investigation but he hasn't thought two or three steps ahead.

I simply can't imagine Gottlieb wanting this to go to trial and having to defend those notes. His recent behavior problems do not indicate a man at peace with himself.

[Mike Nifong]

His recent behavior problems do not indicate a man at peace with himself.
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Got that right!

He may have a history of making bad decisions.

[Ken H]

You might want to consider walking up to Sgt. Gottlieb and tell him you're confused on a point of law - does a red light mean "stop" or does it mean "go"?