Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
Good to see you again. :)
Night stln!
He just made it up - just to appear close to the Ramseys in some way. There's nothing there and if he meant Lovett School, it's not on the same side of the street as the even-numbered Ramsey house was.
Good night...Now get to bed before hubby locks ya up!
In the replay of the interview on L KING they explained that a friend insisted on the lawyersing up. He realized what was happening with the police and sort of took charge to protect them.
BTTT
Since Steve Thomas's book is being used to present a case against Patsy Ramsey on these threads, I thought I should post this link.
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/jonbenetpage/
That's a good point. The stun gun injuries were, like so many things in this case, disputed and I don't know if there is any definitive word on whether or not they were really stun gun injuries. But assuming they were, one would have to explain that. Given all the forensics evidence that has piled up for a family-insider job I would even entertain the possibility that someone outside the family was also involved. Who knows.
But more to the point, how do we know the age of those injuries? A 911 call was made 3 days before the murder from the Ramsey house. What was that all about? Could there have been a stun gun present in the house prior to the murder and no longer there the night of?
Your thoughts?
One more before I shut down and crawl into bed - details are here about when he landed. He actually changed back into the red silk shirt and tie before they landed and he got real tense near the last hour of the flight.
Ramsey Suspect Lands in Los Angeles
Aug 21, 12:52 AM EDT
By JOCELYN GECKER
Associated Press WriterAdvertisement
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- John Mark Karr, the suspect in the killing of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey, arrived late Sunday after a 15-hour flight from Thailand on which he sipped champagne, dined on fried king prawns and roast duck, and exchanged what he described as "small talk" with law enforcement escorts.
Agents wearing U.S. Customs shirts met him as he left the jet and accompanied him onto the jetway bridge to the terminal.
Karr voluntarily returned to the U.S. and was not handcuffed in his business class seat. He was expected to be detained by Los Angeles authorities pending a hearing on extradition to Boulder, Colo., where authorities have issued an arrest warrant for him.
He is expected to face charges in Boulder of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault in connection with the young beauty queen's 1996 killing.
Karr was to be processed by immigration officials in Los Angeles and arrested by local authorities on the Colorado warrant, said Carolyn French, spokeswoman for the Boulder County district attorney's office.
A hearing was expected to take place in Los Angeles within a few days, French said, and if he agrees to waive extradition, Karr will then be taken to Boulder County.
"If he fights extradition that is a much more lengthy process," French said.
The Los Angeles County district attorney' office had not received word of an imminent hearing, spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said.
"We've been presented with nothing," Gibbons said. "If that is going to happen, no one has notified our office."
Just before Karr boarded the flight, another bombshell emerged: Reports that he sought treatment at a Thai sex-change clinic.
Karr, dressed neatly in a red, short-sleeve, button-down shirt and black tie, was not handcuffed while being whisked through Don Muang International Airport in Bangkok. At a Thai Airways International departure gate, he talked amiably with fellow passengers.
The 41-year-old teacher sat in a window seat next to Mark Spray, an investigator with the Boulder County District Attorney's office. A U.S. Embassy official and an agent with "Homeland Security" on his T-shirt were also part of the escort party.
Before takeoff, Karr took a glass of champagne from a flight attendant and clinked glasses with Spray, who sipped orange juice.
Dinner on board, served on a starched white tablecloth with silverware, was one many passengers would envy. Karr started with a pate, then had a green salad with walnut dressing. The main course was fried king prawn with steamed rice and broccoli, followed by a slice of Valrhona chocolate cake for dessert. Karr drank a beer, crushing the can with his hands when it was empty, then moved on to a glass of French chardonnay with his main course.
He later dined on roast duck with soy sauce and yellow noodles, and for his third meal quickly ate a piece of pizza served with chocolates and a bottle of Evian.
"It seems odd to me. If there is an arrest warrant issued, he ought to be under arrest," said former Adams County District Attorney Bob Grant, who was involved in the Ramsey investigation. "It is very strange. Whoever is in control of him ought to make sure he isn't doing things like drinking champagne."
Other experts called the royal treatment a brilliant strategy intended to get the suspect relaxed enough to talk more.
"There is always a reason when the unusual happens," said Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
Though Karr appeared relaxed for most of the flight, chatting with Spray, his expression grew more serious when the plane was just over an hour from its scheduled landing. His eyes darted around to see who was watching him.
Asked by an AP reporter about his conversation with Spray, he said it was "small talk." Still, Spray took notes on some of Karr's remarks.
He stopped chatting when television news crews on the flight turned their cameras on. Then he stopped smiling, clutched the armrests of his seat and stared at his lap.
Karr did not speak to reporters, but at one point summoned the AP reporter over to his seat. He mentioned an interview she had given, recalling that someone asked her what he was like.
"You said I looked you straight in the eye when I talked to you and I want to tell you I appreciate that, I thought it was nice," Karr told the AP reporter.
Karr appeared to order the drinks himself, and instigated conversations with investigators.
Also during the flight, Karr flipped through the movie channels and watched "The Last Samurai" starring Tom Cruise. He also dozed on and off, and two guards accompanied him on several trips to the bathroom, each time leaving the door slightly ajar.
Karr had the Dan Brown book "Digital Fortress" but did not spend much time reading it. At one point he changed out of the red shirt and tie, replacing them with a blue polo, but then changed back into the shirt and tie before the landing.
Just hours before Karr's departure, a doctor at a seedy but popular clinic in downtown Bangkok specializing in sex-change surgery said Karr had come in for treatment.
"He was one of my patients," Dr. Thep Vechavisit of the Pratunam Polyclinic said. He refused to provide further details.
Another employee at the clinic, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak to the media, said Karr had talked with the doctor about a sex-change operation. This could not be confirmed by other sources.
Bangkok, where Karr lived on and off for two years, is regarded as a major global center for sex change operations. The Pratunam clinic advertises sex-change surgery for $1,625 - a bargain compared to U.S. prices, where male-to-female reassignment surgery can cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Thep has received considerable publicity for his male-to-female operations and the clinic is one of the sponsors of an annual beauty pageant for transsexuals in the seaside resort of Pattaya.
Karr appears to have been shadowed by gender issues since his early years, according to excerpts of e-mails published in the Rocky Mountain News that Karr wrote to University of Colorado journalism professor Michael Tracey.
Karr said his father was a "strong influence but rarely around," and responded to Tracey's question about whether his "fascination with little girls - which clearly has a strong erotic component - is a way of going back."
"Maybe I am not going back but have simply stayed consistent," Karr responded. "My peer group has not changed since I was a little boy, and girls were the people I was with always. Referring to them as a peer group is somewhat incorrect, but might also be the very definition of what they continue to be in my life."
Karr, once detained on charges of possessing child pornography, in recent years apparently traveled to Europe, Central America and Asia to search for teaching jobs. He taught in at least two Thai schools.
U.S. officials, the only ones to have actually interrogated Karr, have been silent about what he told them, citing his right to privacy and legal procedures. Secondhand accounts by Thai officials have been vague and contradictory.
Karr told reporters Thursday that he was alone with JonBenet when she died in the basement of her home on Dec. 26, 1996, but that her death was an accident.
However, there is little public evidence linking him to the crime, prompting some experts to speculate that he is either lying or delusional.
---
Associated Press writers Robert Weller and Judith Kohler in Denver and Christina Almeida in Los Angeles contributed to this report.
I had not read that John was wearing the same thing, or that Patsy was dressed before she went downstairs.
Can you reference a source?
Well, it's really brief but I get the idea. I think you have to separate out Thomas' theory from the forensics. I don't think the forensics necessarily points to Thomas' theory, he just used it to interpret it that way. What I've talked about here is all based on the observations of detectives involved in the case and the pathologists that worked the evidence.
I think that evidence speaks for itself, I just don't think it allows a definitive and clear-cut explanation of all that happened, as Thomas seems to think. It still affords many possibilities but clearly demonstrates that the Ramseys were concealing something crucial and the events of that night were not as they described. What you do with it from there is mostly conjecture.
So now there are two handwriting matches.
Well, I've posted the links twice on this forum. Patsy Ramsey stated that she was dressed before finding the note in her interviews with Boulder police which are now public record. As for John, I believe the links stated that witnesses simply said he was wearing that shirt, but you can check the link. It was described as a black shirt made in israel.
I saw a photo of the marks on JB's neck. It's Wecht's theory that they happened just before the murder. BTW I believe that what looks like incredible bungling was deliberately done b/c there was a child-molesting ring in the area, and they had the power to get the investigation ruined. I believe that JB had been molested in the past.
Roast duck? " ... dined on fried king prawns and roast duck ..."
They never mentioned roast duck on my TV!
So, where was the mango salsa for the caveman?
I've been catching up on the posts for awhile. I found you links after I asked you to post them. Sorry, about that.
Thanks for the links. I'm reading them, but looking for other sites to cooberate them. It seems that there is conflicting analysis for a lot related to this case.
The fact that the DNA found with the blood in Jonbenet's underwear also matches that which was recovered from underneath her fingernails makes it highly unlikely that the DNA came from a store clerk, or manufacturer. This is a big problem for the *Patsy did it* theory.
Well, we now know that the terrorists blew it. The REAL way to get aboard an airplane and blow it up is to confess to some unsolved murder while overseas and then let DHS take you back. You aren't paraded in handcuffs, you're given VIP treatment with champagne, beer, roast duck, prawns, etc. Then all you have to do is excuse yourself to change clothes and then bend over to light your untied shoes and....BLAM.
Meanwhile, you and I get treated like terrorists just for wanting to fly coach from Boston to Baltimore.
For Christmas, I'm thinking of confessing to murdering writer Hunter S. Thompson. Jail in Aspen doesn't sound so bad. Then I can fly first class from wherever I am off to Aspen in elegance and style with an entourage of reporters and security officials in tow. I'll have to practice confessing my secret love for Hunter without smirking. Should I tell them that I blew off his head with a shotgun by accident? That it was all a blur?
Maybe I should confess to killing Robert Blake's wife instead. Or shooting down JFK Jr's plane. I dunno. There are so many dead celebs out there. OOH! OOH! I got it!!!
I murdered Elvis. I was obsessed. They'll HAVE to pay attention to me then...
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/state/15323472.htm
Passengers describe "creepy" scene with suspected Ramsey killer
LOS ANGELES - Word spread quickly among passengers in the waiting area of Don Muang International Airport in Bangkok that the suspected killer of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey would be on their flight.
"They put him in business class?" asked Kris Leeathorn of Thailand, who was dropping his mother off for the same Los Angeles-bound flight as John Mark Karr. "No way. They should put him in the toilet and lock the door."
Anita Phongsathron casually snapped a few pictures of Karr in the waiting area to show friends as she awaited her flight home to Los Angeles after visiting family in Thailand.
Fifteen hours later, the 21-year-old college student was swarmed by reporters and camera crews asking to look at her photos of the now-famous 41-year-old suspect.
[snip]
There is a somewhat simple explanation for the transfer of the DNA - JonBenet was not well trained in toileting issues and had trouble wiping. She would often call out for someone to come help her.
Patsy couldn't tell exactly when JBR had last washed her hands and JonBenet had been several places that day. However, it has been said that the DNA doesn't match anyone who was at the party at the Whites' house earlier in the evening.
The DNA is supposedly from saliva or even someone's sneeze. I had a theory about it, but won't go into it too far. Among the things she was said to have *possibly* eaten that night was a plate of cracked crabs that Priscilla White had saved for her from the night before.
They had visited the Whites on Christmas Eve while out looking at Christmas lights. The Whites were having traditional cracked crab (they were from Newport Beach, CA, originally) for Christmas Eve dinner and JonBenet saw it and wanted some, so Priscilla saved it for her for the next night.
However, no one knows for sure if she actually ate it. It would have been early in the evening and her stomach contents had pretty much been digested and emptied before death - except for some fresh pineapple. I have always felt that it could've been something on the crab shells, but have always gotten ridiculed for it.
Lots of human hands had touched them and boiling doesn't destroy DNA. Her buttery hands could have retained "stuff."
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