Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.
Parse the grammer then. Cause... is... asphyxia. Craniocerebral truama is a prepositional phrase. Also the lack of extensive bleeding indicates she was near death or dead when the blow occurred.
Publically they do not have any interest, I agree.
However, they may ascribe to exactly the theory you put forth -- it was a two man job. If they say Helgoth is the killer, then #2 goes scot free. If they say Helgoth is one of two men, then killer number two knows they are onto him and goes way under.
By never saying Helgoth is/was a suspect, they keep #2 on his toes -- Do they suspect 2 people? Am I free and clear? Do the ramsey's know I exist?
IN this scenario - Karr would make a perfect #2 guy -- It would wash that he would say her killing was an accident etc.
Hopefully an angle they are exploring.
CU prof pushes idea that intruder killed 6-year-old in Boulder
By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
June 15, 2004
A new documentary on the JonBenet Ramsey case airing today in Great Britain, produced by a University of Colorado journalism professor, advances a theory that JonBenet was killed by an intruder who committed suicide soon afterward.
The documentary, co-produced by CU's Michael Tracey and titled Who Killed the Pageant Queen?, focuses on Michael Helgoth as a prime suspect in JonBenet's murder. It also suggests he might have been helped in the crime by a second, unidentified person, who is still at large.
It is not known when, or if, the piece will be aired in this country.
Helgoth, 26, fatally shot himself in his Boulder residence Feb. 14, 1997, one day after then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter said in a televised news conference that investigators were narrowing their list of suspects.
"We will see that justice is served and that you will pay for what you've done to this beautiful little girl," Hunter said that day.
Helgoth was brought to authorities' attention by Colorado Springs private investigator Ollie Gray and former El Paso County sheriff's homicide Detective Lou Smit.
Tracey's one-hour documentary is airing on ITV1, Great Britain's largest commercial network.
The documentary reports that Helgoth owned a stun gun. Smit, who worked on the case for Hunter, and then later on his own, said he believes a stun gun was used the Christmas night murder in 1996.
Also, Helgoth had owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots. That is potentially significant because police found a print made by such a shoe near the spot in the basement of the Ramseys' Boulder home where 6-year-old JonBenet's body was found.
"I think that Helgoth still needs to be investigated," Gray said. "His associates need to be investigated, and I think his death needs to be investigated."
"We did investigate Helgoth," said Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. "And all I can tell you is that there was no DNA match.
"And we looked at a pair of (Helgoth's) boots that had been turned in by the Ramseys' private detectives, and they were compared and didn't match. We didn't have anything further to go on."
Tracey writes a media criticism column for the Rocky Mountain News. He is currently traveling and could not be reached for comment Monday.
This is wildly improbable. If I shot myself on the left side with my right hand (who would even think to do this? It's really awkward), the pistol would drop to my left side, and my arm, most likely, would land across my torso, not on the right side.
I have pretty long arms (35" sleeve), but I don't think I could do this with a pillow. The gun was a Glock, which means the shooter's hand would have to have been about 5 inches back from the body, plus another 3 or so to account for the pillow. The angle of the bullet was such that the shot entered really from the left side, not at an angle; about perpendicular to the front of the body. I just can't envision this being a suicide.
I'm certain Karr didn't have anything to do with Jon Benet's death...he's just a nut who made a false confession. The real killer is still on the loose.
Again, how can you be sure - you don't have the info LE has.
Karr has been to Boulder... Sandrock said today that Karr described to him many places in Boulder, including Karr describing what type of brick was used on the Daily Camera building.
But who really knows if Karr had been to Boulder before JonBenet showed up dead. I truly believe that Karr has been in Boulder at some point in his life, even if was just to drive by or walk by the Ramsey home so he could feel close to JonBenet even if it was after her death.
The DA probably knows that Karr has been in Boulder before, they just are not talking about it at this point. This would have been something they checked out right away when they started tracking Karr.
"....Again, how can you be sure - you don't have the info LE has...."
Every news agency on earth is digging into this man's past, and so far, no one has found that he was in Colorado at the time of the murder.
Thank you for the welcome. Again, you may be right. I'm not holding religiously to anything contrary to established fact. I think part of what is weird about this case is there is a lot about it we still don't know. All that public evidence I alluded to could be explained in a totally different scenario if we add in facts unknown to this point (like, she was kidnapped and killed outside the home).
As for the gentle hints, in the end they're all opinions anyway so that doesn't bother me. They're opinions because we don't know what happened yet. It could go either way. It is well taken but it doesn't convince me of one theory over another.
The facts I alluded to are not disputed and are all well-documented in primary sources. I think the issue some readers may have has more to do with the believability of the scenario I put those facts into. That's fair game, but it still doesn't prove one theory over another. It's just their assessment of human nature and what people are or are not likely to do in a given situation.
For my part I am fully open to learning and to accepting a different scenario as more evidence for one comes my way. As I said, I'm not vested in any one view or another. I think others are.
That's just my two cents.
Um, I don't think so. If one of my kids got their head hit real hard I'd call 911 and get him help asap. I believe the Ramsey's would have done the same thing!
Well hopefully time will tell us if he was involved or not. But thanks for letting me know what your thought are on it.
Any of us could be wrong, but I am with you that I don't think her parents or her brother had anything to do with it.
The Only way for it " drop to my left side, and my arm, most likely, would land across my torso" is if there is absolutely no recoil, your body does not move at all and you immediately drop the gun. That will not happen - the gun will recoil, and it will go straight back at the angle it is held -- A shot instantly killing you (hitting the heart) Will cause you to immediately lose your grip, but at that point your hand will already be moving in the same direction as the recoil of the gun.
LIke I said, i have not seen the angle at which the shot entered Helgoth's body, if it was angled to the right (from the left) then the gun will land on the left side. if it is angled across the body from the right, that gun will recoil and leand on the right side of the body.
I do however as I said, think your 2 man scenario involving Helgoth is very plausible. Hopefully they, or someone, is looking into possible links between helgoth and Karr (maybe internet chatrooms/news groups etc at that time)
Your point about the bleeding is, as I said, well taken. You may be right about that and it seems hard to explain other than she just died of asphyxation FIRST. As for the grammar, I'm no expert but it appears to me that he is saying that the cause of death was... two things - asphyxia and craniocerebral trauma. He could have said it in reverse and got the same meaning; i.e. cause of death was ... craniocerebral trauma associated with asphyxation. The sentence just doesn't distinguish the two in terms of precedence as I read it.
I'm glad the gentle hints don't bother you. You'll find that often the hints aren't gentle at all. LOL.
Have a good one.
BTW, welcome to FR.
I think most people would. I may be totally off on understanding the human natures involved here, I just don't think the Ramseys thought like you and I. So, you may be right, and maybe the Ramseys do think/feel like most of us and would have reacted the same way.
thanks
How true are the reports that he was waiting for a "sex change" operation into a little girl?
Why did Ramsey lay her down on the floor, instead of the couch?
Then why is he being brought over? An alibi check would be the first thing LE would do.
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